[Bodah]

bootlegga bootlegga:

What happens when they get heavy machine guns (like Somali warlords used on their 'technicals' back in the 90s) or even autocannon? Then they outrange you again...so you get a 57 mm Oerlikeron like on Canadian frigates...so they buy black market Silkworms or Exocets...see where this is heading?

I see where you can think it can lead, but in reality it cant.

I doubt these sea thugs could logistically/financially obtain these weapons.

They can never match what we can put on those ships. All they have access to RPG,s and AK, 1980's crap.

Ok if defending and fighting back isn't the answer what is ?

[martin14]

Bodah Bodah:

bootlegga bootlegga:

What happens when they get heavy machine guns (like Somali warlords used on their 'technicals' back in the 90s) or even autocannon? Then they outrange you again...so you get a 57 mm Oerlikeron like on Canadian frigates...so they buy black market Silkworms or Exocets...see where this is heading?

I see where you can think it can lead, but in reality it cant.

I doubt these sea thugs could logistically/financially obtain these weapons.

They can never match what we can put on those ships. All they have access to RPG,s and AK, 1980's crap.

Ok if defending and fighting back isn't the answer what is ?

oh, capitulation and appeasement of course.
and the food aid, cant forget the food aid.

[bootlegga]

Bodah Bodah:

bootlegga bootlegga:

What happens when they get heavy machine guns (like Somali warlords used on their 'technicals' back in the 90s) or even autocannon? Then they outrange you again...so you get a 57 mm Oerlikeron like on Canadian frigates...so they buy black market Silkworms or Exocets...see where this is heading?

I see where you can think it can lead, but in reality it cant.

I doubt these sea thugs could logistically/financially obtain these weapons.

They can never match what we can put on those ships. All they have access to RPG,s and AK, 1980's crap.

Ok if defending and fighting back isn't the answer what is ?

Well, some of these gangs are making a hundred million or so annually, so they've got a bankroll that could substantially arm a lot of guys with a lot of heavy weapons.

I never said we shouldn't fight back, but an arms race, and the deaths that will follow -- I sure wouldn't want to be an American sailor in that part of the world these days, because they'll just slit your throat and toss the body over board instead of ransoming you -- is something that's not necessary.

Convoys can do the job just as well and without loss of life, for either side. Either that or just sail out of range of these assholes (I can't imagine a skiff sailing too well 150 km out to sea) and ignore them.

The extreme solution is to outfit a couple of Liberian/Panamanian registered 'Q-Ships' and send them out to do the dirty work if killing is what it will take to rid the seas of these guys.

[martin14]

boots, you need to read :

On 8 April 2009, a US-operated container vessel, MV Maersk Alabama, was seized in the Indian Ocean about 400 miles (645 km) east of Mogadishu by Somali pirates. The crew freed themselves and the ship, but the captain was taken hostage and loaded aboard a small vessel. On April 12, 2009, US Navy SEAL snipers shot and killed three of his four captors, and freed Captain Richard Phillips, after a pirate pointed a gun at the captive.[14]


from wiki.. 400 miles out in the Indian

Gulf of Aden isnt even 400 miles wide.


so since they have the range, what does that say about the
rest of your argument ?

[Scape]

Convoys, like the ones used vs Uboats, are the best interim solution. There is no way the pirate threat is going away until the power vacuum that is Somalia is stabilized with a powerful central government that can feed and employ the people. Since that is not possible in the foreseeable future the pirates will exist.

Outfitting 'Q-ships' will only attack a symptom and not address the problem but may have promise in the same way bait cars curb auto theft. The cost to train and equip such an initiative may make it prohibitive.

Sting operations to curb the black market of guns and other weapons may also help pick off the more ambitious and lucrative pirate gangs. However, all of these options would require a cohesive and global response as piecemeal efforts will only end up teaching the pirates how to defeat such measures and make them more resilient. Other then the UN or perhaps the more regional but anemic African regional authority that Libya is proposing there are no current suitors at hand. Whatever authority is adjudicated it will be better then having prates that are in league with Al-Qaeda.

[Bodah]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, some of these gangs are making a hundred million or so annually, so they've got a bankroll that could substantially arm a lot of guys with a lot of heavy weapons.

No doubt they are making millions. Still logistically, I dont even think you can buy an autocannon or a TOW missile system at NRA Gun Show in Dallas. They couldn't get their hands on it regardless. Look at Al-Queda in Afghanistan, heavily financed for years and the best technology they got is the exact same weaponry these thugs have.

bootlegga bootlegga:

Convoys can do the job just as well and without loss of life, for either side. Either that or just sail out of range of these assholes (I can't imagine a skiff sailing to well 150 km out to sea) and ignore them.

Shipping companies think in terms of profit, I'm not sure what your idea of a convoy is, specifically what type of ships are contained in a convoy. Do you mean armed fast reaction support vessels. If so, it would be cheaper to just arm the vessels themselves than have multiple vessels.

[QBall]

bootlegga bootlegga:

QBall QBall:

The max range of an RPG-7 is 920 meters. The max effective range of a Browning .50 cal is 2000 yards, with a max range in the neighbourhood of, if I remember correctly, 7000 yards. No contest. Plus the pirates are firing from a small boat, so the person firing the RPG will have to contend with wind, waves, wake, incoming fire and the small boat manoeuvering to avoid said incoming fire.

What happens when they get heavy machine guns (like Somali warlords used on their 'technicals' back in the 90s) or even autocannon? Then they outrange you again...so you get a 57 mm Oerlikeron like on Canadian frigates...so they buy black market Silkworms or Exocets...see where this is heading?

First off you wouldn't be able to mount a .50 cal in those little boats. The first time you fired it the recoil would rip the base of the mounting from whatever it's attached to on the fibreglass vessel. The 57mm Bofors on the CPF's are bigger than those little boats the pirates are using. If the pirates want to use heavy weapons they are going to have to purchase fast patrol boats. However in exchange for the heavy weapons they lose the speed and manoeuverability they have with their current go-fasts, plus they would be much easier to detect, track and destroy. They wouldn't be able to leave the harbor before a Tomahawk turned them into scrap metal. The same if they wanted to use anti-ship missiles, as now they would need fast missile patrol boats like the Chinese Houdong or the Russian Osa class vessels. However once again as soon as they took possession of their first vessel another Tomahawk would appear turning the vessel into scrap. Pirates need to be fast, manoeverable and difficult to detect so they can leave port and quickly get on their target vessel before they're intercepted. If they start trying to turn it into a bigger dick contest they are going to lose, badly.

[ziggy]

My idea,hire me and 9 guys,we will work only nightshifts and have night vision goggles,havent picked out a piece yet that would be just right but it would have to be something fully automatic.

[Bodah]

ziggy ziggy:

My idea,hire me and 9 guys,we will work only nightshifts and have night vision goggles,havent picked out a piece yet that would be just right but it would have to be something fully automatic.

G8 Sanctioned armed security AKA mercenaries could help solve the problem with piracy in this paticular instance.

[ziggy]

Where do I sign?
It would be like deer hunting in Alberta.

[Bodah]

ziggy ziggy:

Where do I sign?
It would be like deer hunting in Alberta.

Praise the lord and pass the ammo !

[ziggy]

Bodah Bodah:

ziggy ziggy:

Where do I sign?
It would be like deer hunting in Alberta.

Praise the lord and pass the ammo !

And the Pilsner!

[Gunnair]

Sea mines are a more likley scenario.

[Streaker]

What kind of subterfuge could gain them their revenge?

Only the Shadow knows!

[ridenrain]

.. and who would be selling them black market Silkworms? Who was trying to get a ship of illegal arms into Mosambique, to help out it's business partner?
Would that be China?

Shippong companies are gping to have to look after themselves because the massive gutlessness of the left will quickly tie Obama's hands and all he'll be able to do is apease them. It's time for firms like blackwater to go on a little sea cruise.

This is a perfect chance to try out all those nifty non-lethal, area denial toys they were playing with. Mount them on a few zepplins, supported by a sea-base and deduct the cost of operations from what the US would have sent to the UN.