[newfette]

yes she was

[Brenda]

ziggy ziggy:

Brenda Brenda:

ziggy ziggy:

On one hand,Canadians say they want the FN to have self government,look after their own affairs in house,on the other hand,some want them to adhere to the white mans laws.

So what's it going to be?
Anyone got a solution?

We can WANT anything we want, but as long as nothing is arranged, we can't do anything...

Like I can't do anything about that asshole that almost killed me while talking on his cell in the car. It's still legal here.

We can still sentence them according to Canadian (or "white man's", as you wish to call it) law, as long as "they" can not govern themselves.
As far as I am concerned, go ahead. But don't expect a bail-out when it fails.

Empower them to mete out their own justice or let the FN follow our laws,I'm into empowering them because most folks dont have a clue about FN's,me included but I know enough to know our laws arent working.

I disagree with that.

You might not always like our sentences, but you wouldn't like the FN sentences either.

[TattoodGirl]

Why not....Most Sentencing Circles are more punishing and involve all members and victims to meet the perp face to face.

[Brenda]

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

Why not....Most Sentencing Circles are more punishing and involve all members and victims to meet the perp face to face.

Why would everybody like every sentence?
We are ALWAYS complaining.
I disagree with him that our laws are not working.

[ridenrain]

I'd demand that the FN self government follow or develop a form of charter before anything further proceeds. Trusting tribal chiefs and a oral history isn't going to make a very stable government.

[TattoodGirl]

Did I say everyone would like every sentence? ...I asked why you thought it wouldnt be liked.

No one will agree on anything...thats good actually. I was saying sentencing circles have proved to be effective. They are used as a tool in court to make recommendations on what the victims would like to see fit the crime. The current justice system does not do that...the recommendations come from Crown. I like that victims have the opportunity to go face to face with an accused and to ask for what they see fit as retribution.

After all it should be the victims have the last say.

[TattoodGirl]

ridenrain ridenrain:

I'd demand that the FN self government follow or develop a form of charter before anything further proceeds. Trusting tribal chiefs and a oral history isn't going to make a very stable government.

so only white man accounts?...just like removing hereditary chiefs and appointed chiefs through the indian act...that didnt work out to well.

So First Nations are to self govern, but by White man standards...hmmm sounds like history repeating itself.

[ziggy]

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

Why not....Most Sentencing Circles are more punishing and involve all members and victims to meet the perp face to face.

I dont know about the one's in this case,just what I saw in Nunavut and it's more effective then the kabluna justice by far.

It's actually harsher but I dont think most could understand that.

[TattoodGirl]

ziggy ziggy:

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

Why not....Most Sentencing Circles are more punishing and involve all members and victims to meet the perp face to face.

I dont know about the one's in this case,just what I saw in Nunavut and it's more effective then the kabluna justice by far.

It's actually harsher but I dont think most could understand that.

I agree...

[DerbyX]

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

ridenrain ridenrain:

I'd demand that the FN self government follow or develop a form of charter before anything further proceeds. Trusting tribal chiefs and a oral history isn't going to make a very stable government.

so only white man accounts?...just like removing hereditary chiefs and appointed chiefs through the indian act...that didnt work out to well.

So First Nations are to self govern, but by White man standards...hmmm sounds like history repeating itself.

That is EXACTLY right.

We expect natives to simply smile and adopt our white mans laws and justice system and thats not right. Sure, we'll allow them their trinkets and minor cultural symbols but to actually give them lawful governance over their lives and self-determination?

I'd love for them to become "Canadian" but for that to happen we need to understand that "Canadian" must therefore include Native culture (traditions, symbols, laws, etc) as part and parcel to our European ancestory.

[DerbyX]

ziggy ziggy:

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

Why not....Most Sentencing Circles are more punishing and involve all members and victims to meet the perp face to face.

I dont know about the one's in this case,just what I saw in Nunavut and it's more effective then the kabluna justice by far.

It's actually harsher but I dont think most could understand that.

Whats that?

[RUEZ]

lily lily:

$1:

We expect natives to simply smile and adopt our white mans laws and justice system and thats not right.

I expect everyone to smile and accept our "white man's laws", more commonly known as Canadian Law.

While I agree that in certain circumstances self-rule is a good idea, I think it's time to settle the claims and get on with living as Canadians.

[RUEZ]

Sure a lot of self hating white men in this thread.

[DerbyX]

lily lily:

$1:

We expect natives to simply smile and adopt our white mans laws and justice system and thats not right.

I expect everyone to smile and accept our "white man's laws", more commonly known as Canadian Law.

While I agree that in certain circumstances self-rule is a good idea, I think it's time to settle the claims and get on with living as Canadians.

Canadian law that was enacted and developed over them and not with them.

A very important distinction.

It would be not much different if the US by argument of plurality decided that NA needed a NA set of laws and implemented them over us.

Just because we claim jurisdiction over them does not make it so. By matter of law our treaties detailed certain realities and we have often ignored them citing factors like "old Britian made them and not "Canada".

The bottom line is that if we want them to be Canadian we need to give them reason to and we cannot do that by telling them in essence to "suck it up" and accept our laws as is.

[DerbyX]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Sure a lot of self hating white men in this thread.

Nope. Just that I respect Native rights and their right to self-determination.

I might say there sure are a lot of colonial bigots here.