[Yogi]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Yogi Yogi:

In every jurisdiction with a gang problem and a local police force the fact is that the police force is incapable of handling the problem. Time to bring in the experts!

Are you sure you enjoy life in Canada?

Given you penchant for executions, public stonings as entertainment, and using the military to wipe out gangs, wouldn't you be happier in Columbia or Zimbabwe or some other third world banana republic?

Go ahead and 'mock' all you want Boots. There is no denying that the situation we find ourselves in today is the result of 'the gentle approach' that you and others who agree with that philosophy have condemned us to. Criminals have absolutely no respect for law and order and no fear of pumishment. Why should they.'A shitload of money vs a slap on the wrist' ie; a few years at most in 'Club Fed'.

[bootlegga]

I've never once said I agree with a slap on the wrist.

I've said we should have prisons run like the CF runs theirs. Their recidivism rate is .5% versus the 20-25% our current system has. And I've also said that murderers, rapists and other serious offenders should be locked up and never let out of prison.

You can advocate hard line policies all you want, but that's not the sort of crap that makes Canada Canada. It would change us from a free society to something far closer to a totalitarian one. Is that what you really want? You can't choose to have some rights for some and none for others. Either you are a free society or you aren't.

[Yogi]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I've never once said I agree with a slap on the wrist.

I've said we should have prisons run like the CF runs theirs. Their recidivism rate is .5% versus the 20-25% our current system has. And I've also said that murderers, rapists and other serious offenders should be locked up and never let out of prison.

You can advocate hard line policies all you want, but that's not the sort of crap that makes Canada Canada. It would change us from a free society to something far closer to a totalitarian one. Is that what you really want? You can't choose to have some rights for some and none for others. Either you are a free society or you aren't.

Now we are having 'a meeting of minds' here. From 'day one' on these forums I have advocated turning the operation of our prisons over to the military. Society is'so far gone' in regards to our justice system, or rather 'lack thereof' that immediate and severe 'intervention' is required. to wit; bring in the military to deal with the problem. ( much the same way klein did when he took over from getty. The provinces finances were a disaster. Klein said " it's going to hurt, but this is what is necessary" and he proceeded. In the end 'we' benefitted by his measures and tactics. With 'steady eddie' at the helm for only 12 mos. we are already headed back into the shitter!)

We need the expertise of the military to get the situation under control, change the balance of 'the rewards of crime far outweighing the consequences', then the municipal police forces can 'be put back in control' whilst the situation continues to be monitored by the experts.

[Bibbi]

I think that the plan sounds good. We have not as yet had any major city disaster due to storms, asteroids, earthquakes and the like, or terrorist bombs, chemical or biological large scale contamination etc. but it is certainly an eventual possibility. Being prepared is better than the post mortem investigation and or cover-up of a disaster made worse by lack of planning and co-ordination.

[Yogi]

Bibbi Bibbi:

I think that the plan sounds good. We have not as yet had any major city disaster due to storms, asteroids, earthquakes and the like, or terrorist bombs, chemical or biological large scale contamination etc. but it is certainly an eventual possibility.

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Being prepared is better than the post mortem investigation and or cover-up of a disaster made worse by lack of planning and co-ordination.

And this is exactly what we have been experiencing as regards the 'gang issue'. Hence my suggestion!

[Canadian_Mind]

bootlegga bootlegga:

It would change us from a free society to something far closer to a totalitarian one. Is that what you really want? You can't choose to have some rights for some and none for others. Either you are a free society or you aren't.

Just because a Country gets the military involved in crime-fighting doesn't mean that we have a totalarian state; using the military to oppress law-abiding citizens and enforce dumb-fucke rules is.

Remember Oka? We went as far as bringing tanks, and not only did we bring tanks, they were loaded to the nines. Were we a totalarian state? No.

What about the FLQ crisis? Yes we had Totalarian-like policies at teh time because of the war measures act, but they were for a good cause, and unlike totalarian states, the period of "oppression" ended.




Oh, and the way we do things at Club Ed. would be regarded as cruel and unusual punishment, and some countries would use that as leverage to call us evl and say we are oppressed and under a totalarian regime if civilian prisons were run the same way.

[bootlegga]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

bootlegga bootlegga:

It would change us from a free society to something far closer to a totalitarian one. Is that what you really want? You can't choose to have some rights for some and none for others. Either you are a free society or you aren't.

Just because a Country gets the military involved in crime-fighting doesn't mean that we have a totalarian state; using the military to oppress law-abiding citizens and enforce dumb-fucke rules is.

Remember Oka? We went as far as bringing tanks, and not only did we bring tanks, they were loaded to the nines. Were we a totalarian state? No.

What about the FLQ crisis? Yes we had Totalarian-like policies at teh time because of the war measures act, but they were for a good cause, and unlike totalarian states, the period of "oppression" ended.

Oh, and the way we do things at Club Ed. would be regarded as cruel and unusual punishment, and some countries would use that as leverage to call us evl and say we are oppressed and under a totalarian regime if civilian prisons were run the same way.

The CF is a sledgehammer, not a scalpel and dealing with gangs needs limited applications of force (like drug raids with SWAT teams), not the ability to blow up buildings or sink ships.

Yes, the CF has been used sparingly in the past to deal with domestic crises, but never for something protracted like a war on drugs. Having the CF fight gangs in our cities and having them blockade Oka are two very different missions.

If you think that using the CF to hammer gangs into the ground won't lead to all sorts of violence, then you don't understand how things work. Gangs already have wars with each other that involve car bombings, assassinations, drive-bys with automatic weapons, etc. Bringing the CF into the mix would only escalate that. Odds are such a war would last far longer than either the FLQ crisis or the Oka crisis.