[saturn_656]

ziggy ziggy:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

poquas poquas:

Emotional damage to the bully

Why is this a concern?

Maybe he's talking about himself.

Maybe its just me, but I have a hard time having sympathy for the victimizer. Bullies are parasites that prey on those weaker than they. True cowards, yellow to the core, they will never (knowingly) challenge anyone with the ability to defend themselves.

They get off on making the lives of others hell.

[poquas]

Ah ziggy… colourful past my friend. Now I understand.

saturn_656 saturn_656:

poquas poquas:

Emotional damage to the bully

Why is this a concern?

Beating the snot out of a bully is great for the person handing out the retribution. Unfortunately it only adds to the myriad of reasons the bully is a bully in the first place. In the most extreme case a bully who now has a bloody nose and a raving case of humiliation on top of it might go home and get a gun or a knife. Beating the crap out of them doesn't turn off the "bully gene". They just have a stronger need to retaliate.

[saturn_656]

poquas poquas:

Beating the snot out of a bully is great for the person handing out the retribution. Unfortunately it only adds to the myriad of reasons the bully is a bully in the first place. In the most extreme case a bully who now has a bloody nose and a raving case of humiliation on top of it might go home and get a gun or a knife. Beating the crap out of them doesn't turn off the "bully gene". They just have a stronger need to retaliate.

So the victimized should just "take the hits" lest they further anger the bully?

That's weak, real weak.

[ziggy]

$1:

Maybe its just me, but I have a hard time having sympathy for the victimizer. Bullies are parasites that prey on those weaker than they. True cowards, yellow to the core, they will never (knowingly) challenge anyone with the ability to defend themselves.

They get off on making the lives of others hell.

You got that right.As a city kid moved to a coalmining town in the 60's I had my share before I started fighting back and never once did they come after me again.

Bully's are pure cowards and now they have the net.

[poquas]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

poquas poquas:

Beating the snot out of a bully is great for the person handing out the retribution. Unfortunately it only adds to the myriad of reasons the bully is a bully in the first place. In the most extreme case a bully who now has a bloody nose and a raving case of humiliation on top of it might go home and get a gun or a knife. Beating the crap out of them doesn't turn off the "bully gene". They just have a stronger need to retaliate.

So the victimized should just "take the hits" lest they further anger the bully?

That's weak, real weak.

You've missed my point. Retaliating in kind enforces the correctness of the initial actions in the bullies mind. There are cases where I might suggest retaliation, but most of the time the victim is going to need help form someone else.

A third party, authority figure is the only rational way of dealing with the bully. Punching him or her in the nose, is either going to get you beat up worse, or get someone else paying for your punch.

[ziggy]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

poquas poquas:

Beating the snot out of a bully is great for the person handing out the retribution. Unfortunately it only adds to the myriad of reasons the bully is a bully in the first place. In the most extreme case a bully who now has a bloody nose and a raving case of humiliation on top of it might go home and get a gun or a knife. Beating the crap out of them doesn't turn off the "bully gene". They just have a stronger need to retaliate.

So the victimized should just "take the hits" lest they further anger the bully?

That's weak, real weak.

I found that after making a bully turn tail that the other kids also started sticking up for themselves,if the city kid from the peg with the black rimmed glasses can dish it back then so could they.

[saturn_656]

poquas poquas:

A third party, authority figure is the only rational way of dealing with the bully. Punching him or her in the nose, is either going to get you beat up worse, or get someone else paying for your punch.

More often than not invention by authority figures is ineffective (or nonexistent). I've never heard of (or seen) bullying being brought to a stop by a teacher or a principal.

Look at the poor girl that is the subject of this thread. The authority figures did nothing at all for her.

I cannot count how many times I've seen bullying stopped by the victim standing up to the bully. It is proven to work.

[Yogi]

poquas poquas:

Beating the snot out of a bully is great for the person handing out the retribution. Unfortunately it only adds to the myriad of reasons the bully is a bully in the first place. In the most extreme case a bully who now has a bloody nose and a raving case of humiliation on top of it might go home and get a gun or a knife. Beating the crap out of them doesn't turn off the "bully gene". They just have a stronger need to retaliate.

Put such situations in context. In most cases 'bullying situations' involve someone who is 'out to prove how tough they are. Certainly, there are exceptions to every situation. Invariably, these situations involve someone with a history of severe emotional/mental disorders with a 'knon local history'. Not ever experiencing such a situation ( repeat engagement) I am also aware of incidents where someone was being an asshole, causing problems at a party, got beaten & tossed, then came back with a weapon to 'exact revenge'. Unfortunately, not much can be done to preclude such behaviour.

[poquas]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

poquas poquas:

A third party, authority figure is the only rational way of dealing with the bully. Punching him or her in the nose, is either going to get you beat up worse, or get someone else paying for your punch.

More often than not invention by authority figures is ineffective (or nonexistent). I've never heard of (or seen) bullying being brought to a stop by a teacher or a principal.

Look at the poor girl that is the subject of this thread. The authority figures did nothing at all for her.

I cannot count how many times I've seen bullying stopped by the victim standing up to the bully. It is proven to work.

In the case of this story the authority’s lack of action is deplorable, however the idea of standing up to the bully may only work for the individual standing up that one time, and sometimes that doesn't work either. I've counselled more "kids" than I care to remember that displayed the results later in life because they weren't dealt with properly.

The schools have a responsibility to address the problem when it happens and follow through with the appropriate discipline and counselling if necessary.

[hurley_108]

This is a really tough decision for me. I was bullied in late elementary / junior high. I rarely fought back, told a couple times, had mixed results. I started to fight back in Grade 9, and surprisingly was supported by teachers. Out of the two high schools in my system, I went to the other one - they had better courses, and all the bullies were going to the normal one. Having left all those people behind, I shed my "mark." The years in high school were some of the best of my life. But I also started to realise that I was, in fact, bringing some of it on myself. I liked strange / nerdy things, and wore strange clothes. This I also stopped / stopped advertising in high school.

There is no black and white best way to deal with bullying, but I think I've learned a few things from my own experiences that I should eb able to help my kids have a happy school life.

[poquas]

ziggy ziggy:

Bully's are pure cowards and now they have the net.

THAT I agree with. I've seen more than my fair share here too.

Anonymity has created the perfect opportunity for people to say all kinds of ridiculous things to other people they would never do in person. It ranges from the person who simply disagrees with someone’s opinion and harasses them until they leave to the overt threats of physical harm which, unless they know who they are and where they live, is beyond silly. In the case of an on line forum, we have to rely on the administration or moderators to be that third party control.

[martin14]

poquas poquas:

You've missed my point. Retaliating in kind enforces the correctness of the initial actions in the bullies mind. There are cases where I might suggest retaliation, but most of the time the victim is going to need help form someone else.

A third party, authority figure is the only rational way of dealing with the bully. Punching him or her in the nose, is either going to get you beat up worse, or get someone else paying for your punch.

I think your idea is exactly the kind of bullshit that got us into these kinds
of messes in the first place..

First. most bullies arent exactly smart enough to sit down and think about
the repercussions of their actions. Most of the ones I met couldnt spell lunch.

Second. Bullies are essentially cowards at heart. When you stand up to them
and show you will not take the shit, they melt away. If they move on to someone
else, at least they leave you alone, and the bully now has the gossip running
around that someone stood up to him..That alone can ruin a bully.
The minions dissolve as well.

Third, The 'third party, authority' often doesnt exist, or is completely
ineffective. What does a bully respect ? Strength..
If you have no strength, or the authority doesnt, it goes nowhere.

Once the bully realizes the teachers cant touch them, the strength is gone,
and you are on your own.

[poquas]

martin14 martin14:

poquas poquas:

You've missed my point. Retaliating in kind enforces the correctness of the initial actions in the bullies mind. There are cases where I might suggest retaliation, but most of the time the victim is going to need help form someone else.

A third party, authority figure is the only rational way of dealing with the bully. Punching him or her in the nose, is either going to get you beat up worse, or get someone else paying for your punch.

I think your idea is exactly the kind of bullshit that got us into these kinds
of messes in the first place..

First. most bullies arent exactly smart enough to sit down and think about
the repercussions of their actions. Most of the ones I met couldnt spell lunch.

Second. Bullies are essentially cowards at heart. When you stand up to them
and show you will not take the shit, they melt away. If they move on to someone
else, at least they leave you alone, and the bully now has the gossip running
around that someone stood up to him..That alone can ruin a bully.
The minions dissolve as well.

Third, The 'third party, authority' often doesnt exist, or is completely
ineffective. What does a bully respect ? Strength..
If you have no strength, or the authority doesnt, it goes nowhere.

Once the bully realizes the teachers cant touch them, the strength is gone,
and you are on your own.

All that said, you would change your mind if you did a little serious research into many of the school shootings over the last ten or fifteen years.


I don’t in any way support the complete lack of action we see because authority figures are afraid to act, and in opposition to many of my colleagues, I also don’t agree with the “hug a thug” approach to dealing with the problem. I’m all for corporal punishment in the schools as long as it’s tightly regulated.

In the case of real bullying (not random schoolyard fights), the authority within the school must act immediately and act hard. Give them the power they need and maybe things can change.

[Yogi]

The bullies point of view.

March 1, 2009



Teen bully reacts to victim's media attention

Lindsay Hyde's tormentor tells why she did it

By MICHELE MANDEL, SUN MEDIA





TORONTO - The bully who made Lindsay Hyde's school year a living hell has always dreamed of being famous.

"Well i got arested cuz of some girl. im in the news b/c of the Same girl. i always want fame," the 15-year-old ringleader writes on her Facebook page. "T H A N K X for givin me the spot light."

Look past her atrocious spelling, and the girl we'll call Sara offers a frightening window into the troubled soul of a bully.

Her victim first told her story here last Sunday, of how she has endured months of taunting and attacks by a pack of mean girls at West Credit Secondary School in Mississauga. In January, their bullying escalated into a horrifying assault on her schoolbus, in which Lindsay had pens hurled at her, chewed gum shoved down her shirt and an open condom smeared all over her face and jacket. While none of her fellow students or bus driver came to her aid, one of the girls then punched her in the face.

Lindsay's harrowing experience has been the subject of talk radio shows all week and has elicited hundreds of e-mails and website outrage at the prevalence of bullying in our midst. Every missive came with a similar story of school torment more upsetting than the next.

But why? Why is so much of this happening? What makes these bullies pick on others with such wanton cruelty?

After a lengthy and chilling conversation with Sara, there were no more answers than before, except that she's clearly a kid who needs help.

Because of the bus incident, Sara -- who can't be identified as she's before the courts as a youth offender -- was charged with assault and expelled. She was charged again last week with breaching her release conditions when she was seen back on school property. "I'm pretty much getting screwed," she says.

Sara now insists she regrets what she did to Lindsay and keeps repeating that she didn't "plan" the attack, as if that makes it so much better. So why did she lead the swarming on the bus?

"I was joking around with her and it got really serious," she says, insisting she's never harboured any animosity towards Lindsay. "I had no problems with her except once in a while when she was being snobby. If I was really mad at her, I would've beat her up, you know?"

Sara says the whole bus was involved, with everyone pelting Lindsay with pens and condoms, yet she's the one who took the blame for everything. She wonders why the other students took part and then answers her own question in a rare moment of introspection. "I'm a really big influence on other people," Sara says. "I regret what I've done."

But why? The ringleader is pressed again for what made her torment and humiliate a poor girl who she admits did her no wrong?

"I guess I was jealous in a way," Sara finally confesses. "Or trying to be cool."

It seems that what she's most envious of is Lindsay's closeness with her mother, who has relentlessly fought the school to provide her a safer environment. Sara lives with her dad. "He thinks it's very appalling what I've done and obviously he wasn't impressed," she explains.

And her mom? She grows very quiet. "I don't live with my mom."

That missing part of her life will surface over and over in our conversation: "She has her mom, I don't have my mom. I stick up for myself," Sara says at one point. "Her mother sticks up for her and that's the best thing because she can't stick up for herself and I wish she could stick up for herself," she says at another.

"I'm a very troubled girl, that's the thing," Sara admits. "Every week I get suspended because of stupidity. I guess school wasn't working for me."

Asked for examples, she gives a little chuckle and recalls the time she slipped her chewed gum into the principal's coffee. "I got suspended for that."

Ironically, she was once "jumped" at her old school, but unlike Lindsay, she just laughed it off. She really expected her victim to do the same.

So Sara is feeling pretty sorry for herself. She's afraid, especially after a court appearance last week with other young offenders. "All these girls were so f----d up. I don't wanna end like that," she says.

And she's angry that she's taking the fall when her fellow mean girls are off the hook. "I haven't eaten in three days," she complains. "I'm so stressed out."

Sara has to leave for a meeting about moving to a new school. "I'm starting my life over early," she insists. But before ringing off, the teen wants to know if we can relay a message.

"If you can tell Lindsay that I'm really happy for her that her mom is there for her sticking up for her. I don't have my mom. And I'm really sorry for hurting her physically and emotionally. It wasn't my intention.

"I know she can stick up for herself. I have faith in her."

And for a moment, she sounds so sincere. And then you remember that earlier, Sara had confided her greatest ambition: she wants to be an actress.

[martin14]

well, if she just wanted to be famous, all she needs next is
to go to Seattle, steal a car and get pissy with the guards;

she'll get video credits as well