[Freakinoldguy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Brenda Brenda:

OMG how can you put a person that knows nothing on the helm of a ship...
STUPID MORONS!!!

BC Ferries is doing a good job so far, imho...

Actually, the question to be asked here is whether or not the helmsman was required to know how to navigate.

When I read the article, I was rather taken aback by the tone which suggested the helmsman should have know where they were and how to carry out the navigation of the ship. Certainly in the navy, those jobs are not done by the helmsman, but by the Officer of the Watch who is responsible for the ship's navigation. The helmsman is responsible for steering, making pipes, dealing with alarms and system failures, but certainly not navigation.

I'm curious to see what BC Ferries' reaction will be confirming or denying the accuracy of the article.

I know times change and things evolve but I've got a question. What happened to the Bosn's mate on the bridge?

He used to be the one who made routine and emergency pipes and dealt with the alarms other than ones relating to the helm. If they have the helmsman doing all this how is he supposed to actually steer a course?

When I was in we had a minimum of 5 people on the bridge for 4th degree of readiness sailing, an Officer of the watch, helmsman, bosn's mate and two lookouts.

I think if BC ferries had employed a system similar they wouldn't be in this prediciment since at least one of the 5 people would have noticed the immovable hazard to navigation prior to impact.

Since I don't know what the BC Ferries requirements are for a bridge watch in enclosed waters, I can only surmise that if they only required two people they were sorely lacking in both common sense and seamanship. By not employing a sufficient bridge watch, the onus for the disaster has to fall on the Captain of the vessel and the BC Ferries Corporation.

[Scape]

How is BC ferries to blame if the captian is in charge?

[Gunnair]

Brenda Brenda:

It doesn't really matter if she was supposed to know... She didn't, so what was she doing there alone in the first place?
The ones who DID know where not there...

Well that's more the point. The person responsible was not the helmsman, yet she seems to be getting a lot of the attention.

[Gunnair]

Heavy_Metal Heavy_Metal:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Heavy_Metal Heavy_Metal:

tisk tisk gunnair...it's called a GPS system...that's cummin out of your semens pay...

We use SHINNADS - a little more complicated than GPS.

you sure do....but that was a civilian vessel

Exactly, hence your original position was wrong.

[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Brenda Brenda:

OMG how can you put a person that knows nothing on the helm of a ship...
STUPID MORONS!!!

BC Ferries is doing a good job so far, imho...

Actually, the question to be asked here is whether or not the helmsman was required to know how to navigate.

When I read the article, I was rather taken aback by the tone which suggested the helmsman should have know where they were and how to carry out the navigation of the ship. Certainly in the navy, those jobs are not done by the helmsman, but by the Officer of the Watch who is responsible for the ship's navigation. The helmsman is responsible for steering, making pipes, dealing with alarms and system failures, but certainly not navigation.

I'm curious to see what BC Ferries' reaction will be confirming or denying the accuracy of the article.

I know times change and things evolve but I've got a question. What happened to the Bosn's mate on the bridge?

He used to be the one who made routine and emergency pipes and dealt with the alarms other than ones relating to the helm. If they have the helmsman doing all this how is he supposed to actually steer a course?

When I was in we had a minimum of 5 people on the bridge for 4th degree of readiness sailing, an Officer of the watch, helmsman, bosn's mate and two lookouts.

I think if BC ferries had employed a system similar they wouldn't be in this prediciment since at least one of the 5 people would have noticed the immovable hazard to navigation prior to impact.

Since I don't know what the BC Ferries requirements are for a bridge watch in enclosed waters, I can only surmise that if they only required two people they were sorely lacking in both common sense and seamanship. By not employing a sufficient bridge watch, the onus for the disaster has to fall on the Captain of the vessel and the BC Ferries Corporation.

We run with a bridge watch of three on the KINGSTON class - OOW, POOW, and helmsman. POOw/Helmsman do the pipes. I would suspect civilian requirements are less than military requirements because of the different requirements for damage control/combat.

[Freakinoldguy]

Scape Scape:

How is BC ferries to blame if the captian is in charge?

Because they are responsible for their subordinates, same as the Military was for fisco's like Somalia.

In the civilian world shit normally runs downhill but in this case you'll see that it actually runs in both directions with the helmsman at the bottom and BC Ferries at the top.

If the person they put in charge failed to carry out their orders, then he's culpable but so are they for failing to ensure he followed their orders and directives and didn't put his vessel into jeopardy.

[Freakinoldguy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

We run with a bridge watch of three on the KINGSTON class - OOW, POOW, and helmsman. POOw/Helmsman do the pipes. I would suspect civilian requirements are less than military requirements because of the different requirements for damage control/combat.

Makes sense. A smaller crew.... a smaller watch, but I'm pretty sure the OOD doesn't go below to have a bite to eat when he's on watch and that the Helmsman and POOW are trained to carry out their duties according to SSO's.

[ridenrain]

What I found most desgusting was how the ferries union protected it's people even though they were so obviously to blame. If the union continued to reccomend that it's members not answer the investigators questions, then they also should be charged with withholding.

[ShepherdsDog]

I did a shitload of time on the helm, and as Gunnair said you just turn the big wheel according to the orders from the bridge(this can be fun in heavy seas). That and relaying engine speeds to the engine room. The only thing close(outside of takingthe whaler sailing or fishing) to navigating I did was taking bearings for the OOW, while he was plotting, if I was on a bridge wing lookout position or when I was bos'ns mate on the bridge(we were the ones that did the piping and announcements..... and I learned reeeeal quick never to ever say again, 'Lt. Hupe. Bridge.'

[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

We run with a bridge watch of three on the KINGSTON class - OOW, POOW, and helmsman. POOw/Helmsman do the pipes. I would suspect civilian requirements are less than military requirements because of the different requirements for damage control/combat.

Makes sense. A smaller crew.... a smaller watch, but I'm pretty sure the OOD doesn't go below to have a bite to eat when he's on watch and that the Helmsman and POOW are trained to carry out their duties according to SSO's.

Oh yes, that is true of course. But we're military - BC ferries ain't.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I did a shitload of time on the helm, and as Gunnair said you just turn the big wheel according to the orders from the bridge(this can be fun in heavy seas). That and relaying engine speeds to the engine room. The only thing close(outside of takingthe whaler sailing or fishing) to navigating I did was taking bearings for the OOW, while he was plotting, if I was on a bridge wing lookout position or when I was bos'ns mate on the bridge(we were the ones that did the piping and announcements..... and I learned reeeeal quick never to ever say again, 'Lt. Hupe. Bridge.'

Steamer puke!

I was a 280 lady myself so we could see the ocean.

[ShepherdsDog]

I was on the Yukon - Officer Cadidiot Daycare.

[ShepherdsDog]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

We run with a bridge watch of three on the KINGSTON class - OOW, POOW, and helmsman. POOw/Helmsman do the pipes. I would suspect civilian requirements are less than military requirements because of the different requirements for damage control/combat.

Makes sense. A smaller crew.... a smaller watch, but I'm pretty sure the OOD doesn't go below to have a bite to eat when he's on watch and that the Helmsman and POOW are trained to carry out their duties according to SSO's.

Oh yes, that is true of course. But we're military - BC ferries ain't.

That's what stewards are for, bringing chow to those that have to work.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I was on the Yukon - Officer Cadidiot Daycare.

[ShepherdsDog]

Unlike Harbour Patrol - aka 2 Squadron we were always out at sea.