[Gunnair]

lily lily:

It's news. Who knows how it will pan out, but this is news.

Funny how negative stories are either dismissed out of hand or blamed on the media. Perhaps the blame should be placed where it belongs... on the bad apples who are doing stupid things... regardless of whether they're military or not.

I agree, it is news, and I will be curious to see what it's about.

That being said, as I posed to Streaker, what's the difference between Sapper dismissing it out of hand and Streaker digging it up and posting it?

Let's be completely fair with who we imply as being biased at least.

[Thanos]

I'm sensing that this is another attempt by the anti-military types to try to make sure that civil liberties lawyers dedicated to protecting the rights of the enemy outnumber our soldiers on the battlefield.

By all means have another one of your pernicious inquiries. Give the Libbos and Dippos something new to jerk off to and get all orgasmic about for when Parliament resumes. Just don't pretend that the aim of any battlefield investigation is to do anything besides engaging in another ridiculous group-slander of the entire Canadian contigent in Afghanistan.

[Gunnair]

lily lily:

Digging it up? Is this old news?

Sapper's response seems to be typical, and I sometimes think such knee-jerk reactions are what Streaker is looking for.

Maybe if the stories got discussed honestly things would change.

And maybe I'll get a pony for my birthday.

Not old news, but obscure and with hardly any noteworthy detail other than to say an investigation has begun - precisely the type of thing Streaker likes to post.

Again, let's try to be fair here, Lily, Streaker is not known for anymore honest discussion than us 'military' types as you infer.

I wouldn't go out and buy a saddle yet....

[roger-roger]

You don’t learn anything about what happened in the news article though, that’s why I don’t see why this is news. All you find out is the NIS was tapped over an incident, and in true CBC form, they point out some armchair generals don’t trust the NIS. The fact that they asked a man, who has been retired for over a decade, for his opinion shows this is just sensational journalism.

Drapeau Drapeau:

he worries the lesson has been forgotten.

Give me a break, if he actually saw what the military has been since the 15 years he donned a uniform he would realise how backwards his statement really is.

[roger-roger]

Regardless though, the general public will not know how this pans out. If something did happen the member or members will be quietly discharged, just like a certain sniper was a few years ago.

[BartSimpson]

Streaker Streaker:

At any rate, unless you (Eisensapper) personally witnessed the incident you know no more about what happened than I do.

No, Eisensapper has worked in theatre and he evidences firsthand knowledge of the place and the protocols for working in Helmland. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt to know more about the situation just as I'd give you the benefit of the doubt for being familiar with the operations of the Canadian Communist Party.

[roger-roger]

I completely admit I am biased, I never said I am not. The conclusions I draw are heavily weighted by my bias that the Canadian Military is honest, loyal, professional and courageous.

[DrCaleb]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Regardless though, the general public will not know how this pans out. If something did happen the member or members will be quietly discharged, just like a certain sniper was a few years ago.

Furlong? I thought he just didn't re-up?

They screwed his team over big time too.

[Thanos]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Regardless though, the general public will not know how this pans out. If something did happen the member or members will be quietly discharged, just like a certain sniper was a few years ago.

I have my doubts. The potential for another media/political inquisition or bloodbath against Stephen Harper and against the CF might be too big a temptation for the usual suspects to resist. If they can get a few more political points ahead by crucifying some Canadian soldiers then it's pretty much a guarantee that they're at least going to try.

[BartSimpson]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

The fact that they asked a man, who has been retired for over a decade, for his opinion shows this is just sensational journalism.

I disagree. Asking a retiree for an informed opinion is SOP for media because, as you should know, anyone active duty will only have the opinion they're ordered to have.

[Gunnair]

lily lily:

I dunno. Some of the military folk wonder why positive stories don't get airtime, like there's a big conspiracy in the MSM. The same could be said for the rest of us... how many stories make the newspapers about people helping out other people? Why do some feel the military is an exception, and we should be reading about them doing things for foreign children?

I think the bias is there if you want to see it.

Ultimately because our mission is to help Afghanistan - and it's done through a number of different measures only one of which is combat. We are providing medical attention, infrastructure support, and training for military and police to say the least.

$1:

The current Canadian military mandate in Afghanistan
JTF-AFG headquarters are located at Kandahar Airfield, along with about 9,000 other international troops. The JTF-AFG area of operational responsibility extends throughout Kandahar Province. So far, in 2007 another 28 soldiers have died.

JTF-AFG military operations are directed by NATO–ISAF Regional Command (South) Headquarters, also located within Kandahar Airfield, and aim to establish a secure environment throughout Kandahar Province; to support operations of the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police; and to extend the authority of the Government of Afghanistan throughout Kandahar Province. The current Commander of JTF-AFG, Brigadier General Guy Laroche, exercises both national and operational command over CF elements in Afghanistan, on behalf of the Chief of the Defence Staff. Brigadier General Laroche exercises national command in matters of national policy, administration and discipline. With regard to military operations, Canada has agreed to provide forces, without restrictive caveats, under operational command of NATO-ISAF; thus, Brigadier General Laroche receives operational orders from the Commander of ISAF Regional Command (South).(5)

The battle group
The mission’s main combat element is a battle group of about 1,300 personnel, built on a designated infantry battalion and reinforced by many elements from other military units in various parts of Canada. It includes a tank squadron, an artillery battery, an armoured reconnaissance troop, a combat engineer squadron and a tactical uninhabited aerial vehicle unit.

The battle group operates in support of the Afghan National Army and in cooperation with other ISAF forces, throughout Kandahar Province, to establish a security presence and to eliminate armed concentrations of insurgents. This element has engaged in most of the combat operations and consequently has suffered most of the casualties. Those arguing for an end to the “combat” mission are essentially calling for the withdrawal of the battle group. If it is withdrawn, its security role throughout Kandahar Province will have to be taken up by an equivalent organization from another nation because, at this point, no one expects that the Afghan army or police will be able to fulfill the security role on their own at any time in the near future. During hearings on Canada’s military mission in Afghanistan, conducted by the House of Commons Standing Committee on National Defence,(6) not one witness believed that an adequately secure environment would be established throughout Kandahar Province by February 2009, even if the JTF-AFG battle group remained in place.

The provincial reconstruction team
Another major JTF-AFG element is the Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team (KPRT), one of 25 ISAF provincial teams throughout Afghanistan. The KPRT is composed of about 350 personnel, including CF elements, a political director from Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada (DFAIT), three development officers from the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), two officers of Correctional Service Canada and nine civilian police led by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).

An infantry company provides security, but the KPRT military component also includes military police, military project managers, civil–military cooperation (CIMIC) personnel, and medical and other support personnel. The infantry company provides local and point protection for KPRT officials as they go about their reconstruction and development duties throughout Kandahar Province. This company occasionally engages in combat, but on a more local level than the battle group. Nonetheless, in the course of their work the KPRT military personnel have suffered death and injury from insurgent attacks and from improvised explosive devices.

The KPRT helps to reinforce the authority of the Afghan government in Kandahar Province and facilitates delivery of reconstruction and development aid from a variety of international donors or contractors. For example, the US Agency for International Aid (USAID) is part of the KPRT, and there is also representation from the Afghan Ministry of the Interior. It is also important to know that the KPRT works to build Afghan capacity, rather than to do the work themselves, by putting an “Afghan face” on all projects. At the local level, KPRT experts meet with village jurgas (or shuras) — a gathering of village elders — to determine what Afghans want and need. The KPRT then facilitates the work to be done by Afghans.

Some of the options to be studied by the Manley committee involve a determined re-focusing on reconstruction and development. In any such case, augmenting the reconstruction or development personnel would require a commensurate increase in the military security element.

The operational mentor liaison team
Since early 2006, the Canadian Operational Mentor Liaison Team (OMLT – informally known as “omelette”) has been advising, mentoring and assisting Afghan National Army units in Kandahar Province. At present, the OMLT consists of approximately 150 CF personnel who are training approximately 1,000 Afghan soldiers of the 1st Brigade, 205th Corps, broken down into Kandaks (battalions) of about 350 soldiers each. Some CF personnel have also reinforced Canadian civilian police officers who are training the national police. CF mentors accompany their national army protégés in operations against insurgents.

The overall objective of the OMLT is to bring the Afghan army and police to a level where they can take over responsibility for the security and stability of local areas within Kandahar Province and extend the legitimate authority of the Government of Afghanistan. At some point, when these military and security forces are able stand on their own, the CF will be able to withdraw from this important training role.

One of the options to be considered by the Manley committee involves the enhancement of this training program. The desirability of extending the OMLT until 2011 has also been noted in the recent Speech from the Throne. This would in be keeping with the terms of the Afghanistan Compact,(7) to which Canada is a signatory.

Combined Security Transition Command – Afghanistan
Approximately 30 CF personnel serve in the US-led Combined Security Transition Command – Afghanistan (CSTC-A).(8) In partnership with the Government of Afghanistan and the international community, CSTC-A plans, programs and implements structural, organizational, institutional and management reforms of the Afghanistan National Security Forces. CSTC-A is not a NATO organization. It is a US-sponsored body operating under the auspices of the Afghan Compact. The CF also contribute 15 personnel to act as instructors in training Afghan army personnel at the Canadian Afghan National Training Centre Detachment (C ANTC Det) in Kabul.

Strategic Advisory Team – Afghanistan
Since September 2005, the CF have provided a Strategic Advisory Team – Afghanistan (SAT-A) to assist senior bureaucrats in Afghan government ministries. Its mission is to provide capacity-building assistance in direct support of senior leaders within the Government of Afghanistan. The SAT-A is a Canadian, not NATO, organization. It includes 15 CF members augmented by a CIDA officer to advise on development issues. Although the SAT-A is a military unit on an independent operation and is therefore legally responsible to the Chief of the Defence Staff, the team works in consultation with Canadian Ambassador Arif Lalani, the Canadian Head of Aid and a senior representative of the Afghan government. CF planners work under Afghan leadership within their partner Afghan government ministries and agencies.

JTF-AFG support elements
The JTF-AFG is supported by a number of headquarters elements and support personnel, including Health Support Service (HSS) workers, a 300-person National Command Element (NCE) and a 300-person National Support Element (NSE). Nearly 100 Canadians are serving in various positions in other NATO-ISAF headquarters in Kandahar and Kabul. There is also a 250-person Theatre Support Base elsewhere in Southwest Asia. If, in any future mission configuration, the battle group were removed from the organization, there could be a consequential downsizing in national support elements.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0719-e.htm#provincial

A long winded snippet, but it does illustrate that there is more to report on than combat.

[roger-roger]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Regardless though, the general public will not know how this pans out. If something did happen the member or members will be quietly discharged, just like a certain sniper was a few years ago.

Furlong? I thought he just didn't re-up?

They screwed his team over big time too.

He screwed himself over.

[BartSimpson]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

I completely admit I am biased, I never said I am not. The conclusions I draw are heavily weighted by my bias that the Canadian Military is honest, loyal, professional and courageous.

Son, that's not bias, that's simply confirmed intel.

[DrCaleb]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Regardless though, the general public will not know how this pans out. If something did happen the member or members will be quietly discharged, just like a certain sniper was a few years ago.

Furlong? I thought he just didn't re-up?

They screwed his team over big time too.

He screwed himself over.

I don't know that much about him, just the circumstances of the accusations. And his amazing shot.

He's an Edmonton City cop now. I shook his hand and bought him a Timmies a while back.

[BartSimpson]

Eisensapper: My 'quote of the day' is from a friend talking about the IAF attack on a mosque in Gaza earlier today...

"Secondary explosions are nature's way of telling you your intel was good."