[DerbyX]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

DerbyX DerbyX:

So were the soviets.

There are lots of tribes in that area all with histories stretching back millenia longer theh our own.

We simply picked a few tribes to use to attack the others just as our ancestors did with our own natives long ago. We "allied" with some native tribes in our fight agianst the US or other tribes back then too but in the end we turned out to be the betrayers.

Teh people we have allied with are just as guilty as the taliban for injustices and horrific acts also.

Thats why things are even worse even though its been over 7 years.

Hayzeus Derby...thats a wacko point of view.

As for the "Palestinians" living in Canada...all stand together whilst we fire a few rockets at you.

I tend to think of the who violence belief as the true wacko POV. Look what happened in Ireland. Relative peace was achieved not through violence but through people putting violence behind them.

Its not about what "Palestinian Canadians" think. I expect them to have a pro-palestine POV just as Israeli/jewish Canadians have an opposite POV. Alot of jewish people without ever having set foot in Israel automatically side with them just as the reverse is true.

[DerbyX]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

If the conditions were really so bad in Palestine all they would have to do is sit back and show us. They do not have to fire indiscriminately into Israel.

They do. Few listen. Without having to repost alot of graphic footage of innocent palestinians being executed by IDF/Israeli police rest assured it does happen.

That doesn't mean that palestinian groups aren't comitting acts of violence in return.

Rockets and mortars into israel as revenge for israels revenge which was revenge for ......

Cycle of violence and all that.

If any region on earth truly needed a world intervention of a unified police force designed to stop violence on both sides then this is it.

[roger-roger]

Too bad that both sides have to agree to such a thing... Not that it would make a difference.

[DerbyX]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Too bad that both sides have to agree to such a thing... Not that it would make a difference.

I think they might if the proper words were spoken.

How did we end up in between the turks and greeks in cyprus anyway?

UN buffering zones to keep the peace might just work very well. Peacekeepers helping the palestinians maintain order, build infrastructure, etc stand a far better chance of anything else doing so.

The UN patrols the border zones and gives no reason for any palestinian to attack them while helping to prevent any attacks into israel.

Things get better and the palestinians develop a vested reason for not wanting retalitory attacks.

Seems to me as the perfect example of peacekeeping.

[hwacker]

DX forgets the muslims worldwide hate jews. it's in their book.

But don't tell DX, his little rant of utopia is all he has.

[roger-roger]

The Peacekeepers would not be able to stop the attacks. I wasnt over in Cyprus but maybe a few of the service members who were there could fill us in... Cyrpus is still divided by the way, buts its more of a tourist attraction than anything else.

[DerbyX]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

The Peacekeepers would not be able to stop the attacks. I wasnt over in Cyprus but maybe a few of the service members who were there could fill us in... Cyrpus is still divided by the way, buts its more of a tourist attraction than anything else.

My dad was and did. Cyprus IS still divided and that I think is the prevaling lesson that despite being there for longer then you and I have been alive their is till hate and animosity.

I'm not saying we will end that in Palestine/Israel. I'm saying we might minimize day to day violence and bring a measure of peace. Given that any undertaking would be with the permission of both sides I'd think that would be a neccessary step forward. That alone might help.

Both sides would take a measure of fact that their side held validity.

Seems to me it is the only true way to approach things like this is exactly in that manner. An attempt to broker peace between 2 conflicting parties.

[roger-roger]

Peacekeeping is useless though, what would the Peacekeepers do when Palestine attacks?

[DerbyX]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Peacekeeping is useless though, what would the Peacekeepers do when Palestine attacks?

What did in cyprus? We didn't just show up as a force for the beaches did we.

After the violence was abated in the balkans is there not a measure of peace?

In both cases we showed up and didn't attempt to impose anything more then fair peace on both sides.

yes we did bomb and fight serb and/or croat forces.

The difference is that we achieved peace because we didn't go all out on one side.

We did that in Iraq (note I mean "western forces") and Afghanistan and have won peace in neither in far far longer.

Why is that?

We keep ignoring why we achieve peace and the reason thereof. We also ignore the conduct of our so called allies while we vilify the conduct of our so called enemies.

Do you honestly thing we would be in Afghanistan or even thinkign about them if the US had not have invaded?

[roger-roger]

Both sides have to willing for peace for Peacekeeping to go through, and I am positive that if the States did not attack we would not be there. That does not change that fact that Canada is doing good work there.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Both sides have to willing for peace for Peacekeeping to go through

Why do you think the dove movement in Israel has almost disappeared in the past ten years? Everytime they made overtures of peace, the Arabs answered with violence.

[DerbyX]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Both sides have to willing for peace for Peacekeeping to go through, and I am positive that if the States did not attack we would not be there. That does not change that fact that Canada is doing good work there.

1) Your first sentence is likely about cyprus and/or peacekeeping in general.

Correct. We cannot peacekeep unless both sides work towards it. I agree.

2) The states cared nothing about how bad the taliban were both before and after 9/11. They wanted excuses for violence. They proved that over and over.

That alone disqualifies our efforts just as our society and laws disqualifies evidence upon wrongdoing from our police.

3) Doing good work is not enough a justification. Others have heard this story before but I know you havne't and I respect you to tell it honestly.

Years ago in Uni I had a friend who was being abused by her boyfriend. She has fallen on tough times and had dropped out and by affect fallen away from her uni group of friends. I missed the big falling out because I was out of the country at the time and when I came back I was one of her only remaining old friends from uni.

We weren't bossom buddies but saw each other a few times a week. She "unburdered" herself about her problems including her BFs habit of hitting her.

Needless to say I did all the usual stuff, like telling her to leave him, etc. That went on for a few months. She'd leave, go back, leave, go back .....

I'd help her out as much as possible.

Then one night she came to me with a black eye. He had punched her. Before it had just been alot of BF-GF stuff with rhetoric.

A day later myself and a few friends of mine went to visit him. He encountered "difficulties" with us and we gave him a few ultimatims/threats.

I thought I was helping.

I wasn't.

Long story short she screamed at me for interfering in her personal life and making things worse. (thid was before I understood the psychology of abusive relationships).


See the point?

Need more whiskey?

[herbie]

Dear Citizens of Gaza:
Please accept this money from the citizens of Canada. We have some extra. The retarded kid that poked the dog with the sharp stick until it bit him finally learned, and doesn't poke the mean dog anymore. So we decided to send what we used to give him to you instead.
It's just something we do, we try to help those who just can't figger it out no matter what.

[roger-roger]

Oh I know, no sooner did Israel stop the Gaza occupation, Hamas came in and started up shop again. If they would have just taken it as a victory and stopped things would have been getting better. Of course this is the place where 12 year old boys are expected to martyr themselves in the Holy Jihad.

[StuntmanMike]

$1:

DerbyX:

I think they might if the proper words were spoken.

How did we end up in between the turks and greeks in cyprus anyway?

UN buffering zones to keep the peace might just work very well. Peacekeepers helping the palestinians maintain order, build infrastructure, etc stand a far better chance of anything else doing so.

Sorry Derby, but for someone who claims to be from a military background, that comment displays an astounding level of ignorance with regard to the role of peacekeepers and their duties.

Firstly, the proper term is "Buffer Zone", not "Buffering Zone". And yes, Canadians did perform an important role in Cyprus from 1964 to 1990.

But peacekeepers, in the commonly understood, Cold-War role, that Canadians have come to nostaligize, only took up their duties with the negotiated consent of the warring parties. In essence, they were only sent in once the belligerents had enjoyed their fill of war and wanted a neutral third party to help them achieve peace. There's no such consensus in Gaza, or anywhere in the Middle East for that matter.

For you to suggest that Canadians, through their tendency towards "compromise", could somehow, unilaterally, impose peace upon the region is laughable.

DerbyX DerbyX:

They do. Few listen. Without having to repost alot of graphic footage of innocent palestinians being executed by IDF/Israeli police rest assured it does happen.

Nonsense. The Israeli Defence Force is certainly not above criticism. They've done wrong from time to time.

But I challenge you to post one picture, photo, or graphic of an IDF member summarily "executing" (your words) a civillian, POW or non-combatant. You will never find it. And if you did, I can assure you, the soldier who commits the atrocity will be subject to disciplinary action.

Love the Israelis or hate them, they do indeed subject themselves to the laws of war, unlike their opponents.