[mtbr]

hwacker hwacker:

herbie herbie:

Don't talk sense. They make $75 an hour and I only make $12
WAAAAHHHHHHH!!! WAAAHHHH!!!
[/rant]

Now back to reality... how the hell do they cut when the Big3 are carrying 100,000s of retiree pensions and the "Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?
Screw 100,000s of pensioners? And this is good somehow?

Here let me give you a blunt hint (don't mistake this as a blunt hit)

In 1977, Honda announced that it would begin U.S. manufacturing with a motorcycle plant in Marysville. On Sept. 10, 1979, the first bike came off the line. The next day, Honda of America received this facsimile message from Tokyo headquarters: "Proceed with auto plant." The original USA 001 Accord is on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich.
Honda began U.S. sales operations in 1959, the company's first venture abroad. Honda's cumulative investments in U.S. operations exceeds $9 billion. Last year, the company purchased more than $17.6 billion in parts and materials from its 610 suppliers in North America.

10,000 Days and nobody has retired, Nice try but i don't think so.

but, but the Japanese hire child labor all those original employees are only 35

[Toro]

Tegan Tegan:

When has lower union wages ever saved a company from bankruptcy?

Funny you should mention that. I had a meeting with a restructuring specialist this week who has been buying bankrupt companies for 20 years. One cost that always must be reduced is labour, given that labour is almost always at least 50% of the cost base, and can be as high as 70%-80%.

This guy takes a transparent approach with the unions. He opens all the books and shows the unions that if they do not reduce costs, the plants will be liquidated. The union leaders, being smart guys, see that they have to make concessions. And they do. Often, they do not cut wages but they cut benefits, change work rules and lay off workers. They will try to offer a package to the guys with the most seniority then lay off the guys with the least seniority if they do not reduce wages across the board. His relationship is so good with the unions that he is often the first guy the unions call when a firm is being bought out of bankruptcy.


As for the auto companies, the pain should be shared by all, labour, management, shareholders and bondholders. If the union cannot agree to concessions, don't give them a loan because the Big Three simply are not viable. GM and Ford can probably survive but Chrysler should be liquidated.

[Zipperfish]

Yeah, why get mad at CEOs raking in tens of millions a year, and making bad decision after bad decision. Let's go after the working shmoes. It must be their fault.

[bootlegga]

If they don't make some concessions, they will all be out of jobs...are they delusional?

[bootlegga]

hwacker hwacker:

herbie herbie:

Don't talk sense. They make $75 an hour and I only make $12
WAAAAHHHHHHH!!! WAAAHHHH!!!
[/rant]

Now back to reality... how the hell do they cut when the Big3 are carrying 100,000s of retiree pensions and the "Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?
Screw 100,000s of pensioners? And this is good somehow?

Here let me give you a blunt hint (don't mistake this as a blunt hit)

In 1977, Honda announced that it would begin U.S. manufacturing with a motorcycle plant in Marysville. On Sept. 10, 1979, the first bike came off the line. The next day, Honda of America received this facsimile message from Tokyo headquarters: "Proceed with auto plant." The original USA 001 Accord is on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich.
Honda began U.S. sales operations in 1959, the company's first venture abroad. Honda's cumulative investments in U.S. operations exceeds $9 billion. Last year, the company purchased more than $17.6 billion in parts and materials from its 610 suppliers in North America.

10,000 Days and nobody has retired, Nice try but i don't think so.

Are you implying that one Honda plant in Marysville employs as much as ALL of any one of the Big Three? Because it would have to to create the huge backlog of retirees that the Big Three have. In actuality, it would have to employ hundreds of thousands of employees to match the Big Three. That's the flaw in your argument.

Anyone of the Big three has dozens of plants that have been open for decades longer than Marysville. Honda may have some retirees, but it is a pittance when compared to the hundred of thousands of retirees anyone of the Big Three has to pay out on a regular basis.

[dog77_1999]

I do not believe the Japanese companies pay pensions to their employees.

[hwacker]

bootlegga bootlegga:

hwacker hwacker:

herbie herbie:

Don't talk sense. They make $75 an hour and I only make $12
WAAAAHHHHHHH!!! WAAAHHHH!!!
[/rant]

Now back to reality... how the hell do they cut when the Big3 are carrying 100,000s of retiree pensions and the "Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?
Screw 100,000s of pensioners? And this is good somehow?

Here let me give you a blunt hint (don't mistake this as a blunt hit)

In 1977, Honda announced that it would begin U.S. manufacturing with a motorcycle plant in Marysville. On Sept. 10, 1979, the first bike came off the line. The next day, Honda of America received this facsimile message from Tokyo headquarters: "Proceed with auto plant." The original USA 001 Accord is on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich.
Honda began U.S. sales operations in 1959, the company's first venture abroad. Honda's cumulative investments in U.S. operations exceeds $9 billion. Last year, the company purchased more than $17.6 billion in parts and materials from its 610 suppliers in North America.

10,000 Days and nobody has retired, Nice try but i don't think so.

Are you implying that one Honda plant in Marysville employs as much as ALL of any one of the Big Three? Because it would have to to create the huge backlog of retirees that the Big Three have. In actuality, it would have to employ hundreds of thousands of employees to match the Big Three. That's the flaw in your argument.

Anyone of the Big three has dozens of plants that have been open for decades longer than Marysville. Honda may have some retirees, but it is a pittance when compared to the hundred of thousands of retirees anyone of the Big Three has to pay out on a regular basis.

Can you not read ?


"Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?

"a" infers to one ?

The big 3 are at fault for the mess they are in, period end of sentence. The unions are part of that if they go under I could care less, I make my money off of the Jap plants and they seem to have a vehicles that make them money on every sale.

[Scape]

They are going to do here what they did to the airlines in 2006. Kill the pensions and walk away from any obligations, liquidate as much as possible and the rest will be forced to take a pay cut. Oh, and management and the shareholders will get a nice paycheck for making the companies so viable again while bilking the taxpayer for billions.

No wonder the CAW is up in arms. They know the writing is on the wall they just don't want to look emasculated publicly. This will kill the union but not the reason the union was founded to begin with. If anything it will stoke the fires that created unions initially. It's not management, stockholders or the government that creates the wealth that sustains and grows our economy it the skilled workforce and that is being hacked to pieces here in a bloodbath.

[mtbr]

hwacker hwacker:

bootlegga bootlegga:

hwacker hwacker:

Here let me give you a blunt hint (don't mistake this as a blunt hit)

In 1977, Honda announced that it would begin U.S. manufacturing with a motorcycle plant in Marysville. On Sept. 10, 1979, the first bike came off the line. The next day, Honda of America received this facsimile message from Tokyo headquarters: "Proceed with auto plant." The original USA 001 Accord is on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich.
Honda began U.S. sales operations in 1959, the company's first venture abroad. Honda's cumulative investments in U.S. operations exceeds $9 billion. Last year, the company purchased more than $17.6 billion in parts and materials from its 610 suppliers in North America.

10,000 Days and nobody has retired, Nice try but i don't think so.

Are you implying that one Honda plant in Marysville employs as much as ALL of any one of the Big Three? Because it would have to to create the huge backlog of retirees that the Big Three have. In actuality, it would have to employ hundreds of thousands of employees to match the Big Three. That's the flaw in your argument.

Anyone of the Big three has dozens of plants that have been open for decades longer than Marysville. Honda may have some retirees, but it is a pittance when compared to the hundred of thousands of retirees anyone of the Big Three has to pay out on a regular basis.

Can you not read ?


"Japanese" North American plants haven't been running long enough to even have a retiree?

"a" infers to one ?

The big 3 are at fault for the mess they are in, period end of sentence. The unions are part of that if they go under I could care less, I make my money off of the Jap plants and they seem to have a vehicles that make them money on every sale.

he only READS what's typed by a Liberal.

[travior]

The unions have long lost their usefullness. I have no sympathy for them. Give your workers a 401k, a few weeks of vacation and decent medical. After they retire, they can dip into their retirement and draw social security and go on medicare like the rest of us.

I would happily vote for legislation making all unions illegal. I remember my grandfather telling me back in the 70's that he predicted way back in the 30's and 40's that the unions would one day be the downfall of US manufacturing.

[StuntmanMike]

hwacker hwacker:

I don't want one cent of my money going to these people. they made their beds now let them starve.

That's not totally unreasonable. There's good arguments against giving the auto manufacturers money. In effect, it's subsidizing bad business decisions.

But by the same token, the industry is very important to the Canadian economy, and because the US is bailing out their industry, a failure to do so here would put our manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage.

But you make a good point. There's something fundamentally wrong with having $15 an hour taxpayers subsidizing $32 an hour auto workers.

[RUEZ]

I'm still wondering where the forest industry bailout is. We lost a few hundred more jobs in the last day or two.

[mtbr]

wheres the oil industry bailout?, 10 000 newfies will be home by spring

[Scape]

travior travior:

The unions have long lost their usefullness. I have no sympathy for them. Give your workers a 401k, a few weeks of vacation and decent medical. After they retire, they can dip into their retirement and draw social security and go on medicare like the rest of us.

Unions will never lose their 'usefullness' as long as the forces of globalization are in effect. Let's be frank, if it wasn't for the initial Union movement we would be just another China where sweatshops and child labour is matter of course. There is zero quality control as they just kill the person in charge when the have the next scandal like lead in toys/Pet food or diabetic supplies. Is it the free market that demands Chinese officials heads when baby formula is found to have toxic and deadly additives or was it the free market that insisted such deadly tactics be plied to begin with?

When government fails, as China has and our government allows trade with them regardless, we in turn must govern ourselves. Unions are not a solution but a reaction to that jurisdictional void.

[dog77_1999]

Unions are good for promoting a safe working environment. I think that even today they still do wonders. Now when they start trying to do jack up their wages, it falls apart.