[BartSimpson]

Streaker Streaker:

They aren't perps until they've been convicted of something.

You live in your own special world, don't you?

[martin14]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Sympathy has bugger all to do with it. It's called law. One of the reasons that the US has seen its diplomatic influence and moral sway reduced in the world is their flouting of international law, namely the Geneva Convention. Under Bush they took up torture and arbitrary detention with gusto.

What Khadr does or does not deserve is immaterial. Under the law you get certain inalienable rights as a human being. Just like Clifford Olson did. Just like Paul Bernardo did.

Khadr has the right to appear before a judge to defend himself against the charges laid against him. He has the right not to be tortured. And he has rights under the Geneva Convention.

Thank Christ the days of Bush's reign of torture and death is over. Yeee-haw!

dont quote the Geneva convention in here Zip.

a) it doesnt apply here
b) if it did, Omar should have been shot as a spy.

and if you really think things are going to change that much,
you are going to be pretty dissapointed i think.


wheres Omar going, anyway ?

for now, nowhere...

[Streaker]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Streaker Streaker:

They aren't perps until they've been convicted of something.

You live in your own special world, don't you?

Okay, I'll be more specific for you: They shouldn't be treated as "perps" until they've been convicted of something.

[Zipperfish]

martin14 martin14:

dont quote the Geneva convention in here Zip.

a) it doesnt apply here

Why? Because you say it doesn't? Regardless of what standard you set for treatment of those captured in war--whether it be the Geneva Convention or wahtever--you're going to have to do better than "strip them, put panties on their heads and sic rottweilers on them." At least, if you want to cling to any pretence of moral suasion in the world.

$1:

and if you really think things are going to change that much,
you are going to be pretty dissapointed i think.


wheres Omar going, anyway ?

for now, nowhere...

No, you are going to be disappointed. The torture-fest is over. Gitmo is closing. Obama has said America will not torture.

It is the dawn of a new, Golden Era where everything shall be perfect under the benificence of Saint Obama of Chicago.

[martin14]

too much drugs Zip, better slow down.

Geneva Convention applies to soldiers only.. in uniform.. all others are spies
and can face immediate execution.

hmm, maybe we put the GC in then..

and when is Gitmo closing.. got a date for me ?

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Sympathy has bugger all to do with it. It's called law. One of the reasons that the US has seen its diplomatic influence and moral sway reduced in the world is their flouting of international law, namely the Geneva Convention.

Until some jerkoff liberal judges decided that the definition of 'soldier' includes any SOB holding a gun and killing girls at a public school the Geneva Convention only protected actual soldiers.

Now it doesn't do sh*t and people like yourself won't have to deal with the ramifications of that idiotic decision so what do you care?

[BartSimpson]

Streaker Streaker:

Okay, I'll be more specific for you: They shouldn't be treated as "perps" until they've been convicted of something.

They're treated as perps because they DID something.

[Streaker]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Streaker Streaker:

Okay, I'll be more specific for you: They shouldn't be treated as "perps" until they've been convicted of something.

They're treated as perps because they DID something.

Then prove it in a court of law and convict them of something instead of torturing them!!!

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Sympathy has bugger all to do with it. It's called law. One of the reasons that the US has seen its diplomatic influence and moral sway reduced in the world is their flouting of international law, namely the Geneva Convention.

Until some jerkoff liberal judges decided that the definition of 'soldier' includes any SOB holding a gun and killing girls at a public school the Geneva Convention only protected actual soldiers.

Now it doesn't do sh*t and people like yourself won't have to deal with the ramifications of that idiotic decision so what do you care?

It should be pointed out that the US--and undoubtedly Canadian forces--have killed girls at public schools. I imagine they've killed children all over the place. Such is war. What's your point?

Perhaps you would prefer that law not prevail, and that all authority and legitimacy be transferred wholly to the armed forces--so they can just summarily execute whoever they feel like. Myself, I prefer the rule of law, democracy and freedom.

[Smacle]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

It should be pointed out that the US--and undoubtedly Canadian forces--have killed girls at public schools. I imagine they've killed children all over the place. Such is war. What's your point?

Perhaps you would prefer that law not prevail, and that all authority and legitimacy be transferred wholly to the armed forces--so they can just summarily execute whoever they feel like. Myself, I prefer the rule of law, democracy and freedom.

The difference? Canadians and Americans don't aim at girls in public schools, they get caught in the cross fire sometimes.

The kid was caught in the act. It's the same as the drunk tank, you don't have to go to trail to be arrested for that. It's a clear cut, caught in the act, case. They were just starting to begin trials a little while ago weren't they? he should and will be held untill his turn.

[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Sympathy has bugger all to do with it. It's called law. One of the reasons that the US has seen its diplomatic influence and moral sway reduced in the world is their flouting of international law, namely the Geneva Convention. Under Bush they took up torture and arbitrary detention with gusto.

What Khadr does or does not deserve is immaterial. Under the law you get certain inalienable rights as a human being. Just like Clifford Olson did. Just like Paul Bernardo did.

Khadr has the right to appear before a judge to defend himself against the charges laid against him. He has the right not to be tortured. And he has rights under the Geneva Convention.

Thank Christ the days of Bush's reign of torture and death is over. Yeee-haw!

[Zipperfish]

martin14 martin14:

too much drugs Zip, better slow down.

Geneva Convention applies to soldiers only.. in uniform.. all others are spies
and can face immediate execution.

hmm, maybe we put the GC in then..

and when is Gitmo closing.. got a date for me ?

I'm sorry that you took too much drugs. I will try to slow down for you.

If you reread my previous post you'll see I addressed your first point. Please try to read the original post prior to responding. I think you'll find it helps.

As for Gitmo closing--The president-elect of the United States, Barack Obama, has stated definitively that it will close. No date has ben announced. Do try to keep up.

[Smacle]

war
n.

A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.


prisoner of war
n. pl. prisoners of war
A person taken by or surrendering to enemy forces in wartime.

- Dictionary.com

The War on Terror is a recognized war with a recognized enemy, even if they're hard to spot, thus, all prisoners of war must be treated with respect to the Geneva Convention by states which have accepted the treaties. If we are going to take prisoners during this war on terror we have to abide by these rules.

The Geneva Convention.
http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/texts/doc_geneva_con.html

Prisoners of war MUST be:
- Treated humanely with respect for their persons and their honour.
- Enabled to inform their next of kin and the Central Prisoners of War Agency (ICRC, the International Red Cross) of their capture.
- Allowed to correspond regularly with relatives and to receive relief parcels.
- Allowed to keep their clothes, feeding utensils and personal effects.
- Supplied with adequate food and clothing.
- Provided with quarters not inferior to those of their captor's troops.
- Given the medical care their state of health demands.
- Paid for any work they do.
- Repatriated if certified seriously ill or wounded, (but they must not resume active military duties afterwards) .
- Quickly released and repatriated when hostilities cease.


I didn't notice anything in the treaties regarding court trials.

[kenmore]

Well this bleedng heart leftie liberal says leave him there .. I dont care how old he was or is he is a terrorist and should be dealt with accordingly.

[martin14]

The third Geneva Convention ("Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War") covers members of the armed forces who fall into enemy hands. They are in the power of the enemy State, not of the individuals or troops who have captured them.


it is reserved for soldiers only, civilians treated differently.
Soldiers can be identified by a uniform.
no uniform, no soldier, no GC.

the GC was not written for this conflict, nor has it adapted to it,
its already 60 years old.. maybe it needs an update.