[Zipperfish]

Sapio Sapio:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ridenrain ridenrain:

If the current "leader" of the Libs has such strong reservations, then they are duty bound to vote down the budget. The NDP will and they've been doing what they said for a long time now.

Sounds like you folks have been listening to Ujhol again.

They are not "duty-bound" to do anything of the sort.

They may not be "duty-bound", but if it is so bad for Canada then why would they vote for it? Unless they are playing politics with our money.

Well, seeing as they are politicians, I would exepct them to play politics. However, let's not play silly bugger here. The Canadian electorate would punish any party stupid enough to force an election after two in such close proximity. Everyone knows that.

And you speak to my earlier point about the problem the Conservatives seem to have taking responsibility. You seem to infer that Canadians should blame the Liberals for not votoing against the current budget, as opposed to the Conservatives who actually created it.

[Sapio]

bootlegga bootlegga:

If Harper wants to dig his own grave, it's not Dion's job to say, "Stop shovelling".

The job of the official opposition is to vote against things that the government is doing which will damage the nation. So the liberals must believe that Harper's actions will not damage the nation.

[bootlegga]

Sapio Sapio:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If Harper wants to dig his own grave, it's not Dion's job to say, "Stop shovelling".

The job of the official opposition is to vote against things that the government is doing which will damage the nation. So the liberals must believe that Harper's actions will not damage the nation.

That's a pretty big inference there fella.

Parties can disagree and not vote against things. There is no law that says a party must vote one way or another, simply because it's in the opposition. Like Zip said, everyone knows that if a party forces an election in the next six months, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, so it's pretty good political strategy.

[Sapio]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Sapio Sapio:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If Harper wants to dig his own grave, it's not Dion's job to say, "Stop shovelling".

The job of the official opposition is to vote against things that the government is doing which will damage the nation. So the liberals must believe that Harper's actions will not damage the nation.

That's a pretty big inference there fella.

Parties can disagree and not vote against things. There is no law that says a party must vote one way or another, simply because it's in the opposition. Like Zip said, everyone knows that if a party forces an election in the next six months, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, so it's pretty good political strategy.

So in other words they are not voting for it because of political strategy and not for the best interest of Canadians.

[bootlegga]

Sapio Sapio:

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's a pretty big inference there fella.

Parties can disagree and not vote against things. There is no law that says a party must vote one way or another, simply because it's in the opposition. Like Zip said, everyone knows that if a party forces an election in the next six months, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, so it's pretty good political strategy.

So in other words they are not voting for it because of political strategy and not for the best interest of Canadians.

You can stop playing stupid.

It's kind of like Harper calling an election a year before he said he would, or accepting David Emerson (who crossed the floor), when just six months earlier he criticized for Martin for accepting Stronach (who also crossed the floor).

Harper's done plenty that isn't in the best interests in all Canadians too. He got rid of an income tax cut and dropped the GST, which cost far more (and is contributing the projected deficit) and benefited the wealthy instead of most Canadians.

[Sapio]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Sapio Sapio:

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's a pretty big inference there fella.

Parties can disagree and not vote against things. There is no law that says a party must vote one way or another, simply because it's in the opposition. Like Zip said, everyone knows that if a party forces an election in the next six months, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, so it's pretty good political strategy.

So in other words they are not voting for it because of political strategy and not for the best interest of Canadians.

You can stop playing stupid.

It's kind of like Harper calling an election a year before he said he would, or accepting David Emerson (who crossed the floor), when just six months earlier he criticized for Martin for accepting Stronach (who also crossed the floor).

Harper's done plenty that isn't in the best interests in all Canadians too. He got rid of an income tax cut and dropped the GST, which cost far more (and is contributing the projected deficit) and benefited the wealthy instead of most Canadians.

A cut in the GST is a good thing and is seen as the best way to have equal taxes cuts. We need more cuts of tax in this country. The "deficit" is created because the global issues which slows down our economy. No government (maybe down south) has power to effect that.

[dino_bobba_renno]

Well it is true that the Conservatives may run a deficit but I really have to give credit to the the Liberals and the other opposition parties with their view on what should be done differently. I think they suggested something like "........................................... *sound of silence with birds chirping in the back ground* ......................................"

[ridenrain]

I'd say the Canadian voters are getting fed up with the Liberals saying one thing but doing another. As far as I know, no other leader has run away from a vote more than Dion.. and he's still going strong!

The NDP speak out against the government, disagree with the budget and they never been stronger. The future Liberal leader, Ujjal Dose also spoke out against the throne speech and said he'd vote against it. He seemes to have changed his mind on that one too.

[Zipperfish]

Whatever. fact is--another Conservative government, another deficit. There's a pattern there. Sure you can blame the world economy or the Liberals, but there it is. Theya re just not good keepers of teh federal coffers. They have problems balancing their books. AS the record clearly shows.

[bootlegga]

Sapio Sapio:

A cut in the GST is a good thing and is seen as the best way to have equal taxes cuts. We need more cuts of tax in this country. The "deficit" is created because the global issues which slows down our economy. No government (maybe down south) has power to effect that.

If you want equal taxes, cutting a consumption tax is never equal. Why? Because wealthy people can consume more than poor people, increasing their tax cut.

Example Joe Lawyer buys a $100,000 Hummer. With 7% GST, it costs $107,000. With 5%, it now costs $105,000, equaling a savings of $2000. Joe Six Pack only earns $30,000 a year and can't afford a Hummer, but buys $2,000 of clothes for his family (over the course of the year). With 7%, it costs $2140. At 5%, it now costs $2100, equaling a savings of $40.

How is that fair?

I agree the government can't control international markets, but to go from a $14 billion surplus to a deficit of $4 billion in totally reckless. But what do you care, you won't be paying that debt off, it will be your grandchildren, right? The fact is the Liberals left the government in a good financial position and in two years, the Conservatives have managed to destroy that position.

You and your rich buddies might like saving lots on trips, vehicles, and plasma TVs, but those cuts left us in the position where we WILL go into deficit. Not only that, but his reckless cuts have also meant that his own promises haveven't been kept, from income trusts to defence spending.

** edited for spelling **

[DerbyX]

What most of the conservatives are failing to understand is that teh GST also garnered revenue from the 2 million visitors to Canada per year as well as anybody not paying income tax for one reason or another. That simply shifted more of the tax burden to those paying income tax.

Think about it. While tourists and the like undoubtably can apply for GST rebates I doubt they bother for all the small things they purchase like meals, drinks, rides, what have you. The revenue is lost. The same goes for anybody not paying tax (or their fair share) illegally whether its because they are criminals, work off the books or simply cheat on their taxes. The GST acts to alleviate this somewhat.

No matter how much spinning the con hacks do, no matter how much they try and shift blame to the Liberals for somehow not stopping the govt from blowing the surplus, and no matter how much they want to blame the economy the results are clear.

Increased govt spending with foolish sales tax decreases have erased the surplus and put us back into deficit spending.

Seems to be that all the hypocrite cons decrying the "tax and spend" Liberals who produced consecutive 10 billion surplus budgets are willfully ignorant over their beloved "fiscally responsible" Conseravtives who blew the wad with nothing to show for it.

[commanderkai]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Whatever. fact is--another Conservative government, another deficit. There's a pattern there. Sure you can blame the world economy or the Liberals, but there it is. Theya re just not good keepers of teh federal coffers. They have problems balancing their books. AS the record clearly shows.

Oh shit, bad global economy, and a war makes it difficult to balance a budget, especially since we have a massively bloated bureaucracy? No...never knew this.

I love this. "Oh those evilllll Conservatives with their spending" when they say nothing about the Liberals basically playing politics, instead of being a true opposition.

[bootlegga]

Actually, there used to be a GST rebate for visitors to Canada, but it didn't cover items like meals, hotels, rides, etc. It only covered large purchases, like vehicles, electronics, luxury goods and such.

You are right in that we lost tons of income from tourists.

[bootlegga]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Oh shit, bad global economy, and a war makes it difficult to balance a budget, especially since we have a massively bloated bureaucracy? No...never knew this.

I love this. "Oh those evilllll Conservatives with their spending" when they say nothing about the Liberals basically playing politics, instead of being a true opposition.

Once again, if Harper wants to dig his own grave, it's not Dion's job to say, "Stop shovelling".

Harper runs the GOVERNMENT and its his job to run the country, not the OPPOSITION. Downloading the blame onto the Liberals is just passing the buck BS.

[DerbyX]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Whatever. fact is--another Conservative government, another deficit. There's a pattern there. Sure you can blame the world economy or the Liberals, but there it is. Theya re just not good keepers of teh federal coffers. They have problems balancing their books. AS the record clearly shows.

Oh shit, bad global economy, and a war makes it difficult to balance a budget, especially since we have a massively bloated bureaucracy? No...never knew this.

I love this. "Oh those evilllll Conservatives with their spending" when they say nothing about the Liberals basically playing politics, instead of being a true opposition.

Thats because this has nothing to do with the Liberals.

The CPC is in charge. The CPC is responsible for the budget, not the Liberals.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/540934

You also ignore the fact that its not the economy nor the war (which Harper, unlike the Libs, made the military pay some 75% more out of the DND budget).

$1:

Budget officer Kevin Page concluded the federal Conservatives are likely to run budget deficits "in the near term," possibly beginning this year, and that the fault lies as much with Finance Minister Jim Flaherty as it does with the weak economy. Page's report projects a budget deficit of $3.9 billion in 2009-10. But it adds that, if the economic downturn proves worse than expected, next year's federal deficit could hit $14 billion.

Page says the deterioration of the federal government's financial picture in the first nine months of 2008 is not so much the result of the weakened economy as Flaherty's policies, particularly the latest reduction in the GST and reduced corporate income taxes.