[Zipperfish]

martin14 martin14:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I've never understood why the government requries a licence to get married anyways. A marrriage is a solemn vow to your loved one, usually witnessed by friends and family. What the hell do you need the government for?

tax benefits..



and to kick money into the court system when you get divorced.

Ah, so marriage is subsidized then. Seems like a socialist position for a conservatvie to take. But like I say, it's just three short letters from social conservative to socialist conservative.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

martin14 martin14:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I've never understood why the government requries a licence to get married anyways. A marrriage is a solemn vow to your loved one, usually witnessed by friends and family. What the hell do you need the government for?

tax benefits..



and to kick money into the court system when you get divorced.

Ah, so marriage is subsidized then. Seems like a socialist position for a conservatvie to take. But like I say, it's just three short letters from social conservative to socialist conservative.

There are no tax benefits to being married. To the contrary, married couples have their incomes added together and they are then taxed at the higher tax bracket for that total income. This is often referred to as the 'marriage penalty' in most countries. I don't know of any country besides Ireland that doesn't do this.

[xerxes]

It's looking like the ban has passed, which is regrettable. So once again, a group of people have been deemed second class citizens because of religious dogma.

[Freakinoldguy]

Where is the "Brave New World" that Obama's election was supposed to ring in, like alot of left leaning American celebrities claimed would happen???

The core values of most Americans including quite a few of the ones who voted for Obama remains the same as before his coronation, which gives rise to the question. Did they vote Obama in or Bush out?

Not to diminish Mr. Obama's accomplishments I somehow think it was the latter.

[hurley_108]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

There are no tax benefits to being married. To the contrary, married couples have their incomes added together and they are then taxed at the higher tax bracket for that total income. This is often referred to as the 'marriage penalty' in most countries. I don't know of any country besides Ireland that doesn't do this.

Um, try Canada? Each person files their own return in their name. It affects things like eligibility for GST/HST credit (and we had years of old credits clawed back when we got married), but our incomes are definitely NOT added together. And if income splitting ever happens, there will be a distinct benefit to being married. Plus there are all the non-tax benefits of being married like survivor benefits on pensions, spousal benefits on health plans and such. It's definitely not a burden to be married in Canada. Tax-wise at least.

[hurley_108]

kenmore kenmore:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

If Prop 8 passes, it'll be an interesting commentary on American values - that apparently killing unborn babies is less morally reprehensible than a couple of guys wanting to say a few words to each other.

Thats kind of a shallow comment.. apples and oranges...

What do you mean? Oranges are WAY better than apples.

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

It's looking like the ban has passed, which is regrettable. So once again, a group of people have been deemed second class citizens because of religious dogma.

Not just religious dogma was in play here. The vast majority of Californians are secular and liberal (see yesterday's results for the Dems statewide and for Obama) but what turns them off is that the gays were forcing this issue through the courts instead of doing it legislatively or by Proposition. It also turned them off that the proponents of gay marriage were caught in several lies on the issue.

The liberal Secretary of Education, Jack O'Connel, got on TV and said that gay marriage would not be taught in schools because nothing in the law required it, but it was on HIS OWN WEBSITE that the law DID require this. And then some teacher in San Francisco took a bunch of little kids to participate in a lesbian wedding without parental permission and said it was a 'teachable moment' and allowed by law. That pretty much took Prop 8 over the top for support as it had been behind in the polls for a while.

[scarecrowe]

Monetary benefits for "couples" should be restricted to those raising children, period. I don't care if someone marries their horse, bicycle or favorite iceberg, tax benefits, whether direct (as in income splitting) or indirect (as in corporate write-offs for the cost of providing spousal health benefits), should only be allowed for a child rearing union, no matter what two entities make up that pair.

[Brenda]

So what you are saying, Bart, is that the Californians are too shallow to see what it really means, and have just a couple of incidents brainwash them...

[hurley_108]

Brenda Brenda:

So what you are saying, Bart, is that the Californians are too shallow to see what it really means, and have just a couple of incidents brainwash them...

ZING!

[Scape]

Oh the irony: Black Voters Save Proposition 8

$1:

In California, it looks like Prop 8 has a good chance of passing. With 92 percent of precincts reporting, the gay marriage ban is winning 52 percent to 48 percent. And if it does pass, it will be because of black and, to a lesser extent, Latino voters.

[QBall]

$1:

The opposing sides together raised about $70 million, much of it from out of state, to wage their campaigns.

Makes the $200 million or so we spend on our federal election seem like a drop in the bucket seeing how down there they are willing to spend that much on a single issue.

[westmanguy]

Well then...

California banned same-sex marriage.

This actually really really depresses me. Florida, Arizona, and California have banned gay marriage, and now, Arkansas, has limited adoption to married couples only (thus no gay adoption).

Could though...pro same-sex marriage people in California just put forward another constitutional amendment proposition in 4 years to define marriage as 'a union between two people' and fight that battle again, and again, and again, until they finally win?

Also...people like Ellen, and people already married, are they now null and void?

On a positive note...Nebraska banned affirmative action based on gender or race.

[tritium]

California banned same-sex marriage.

westmanguy, I respect your view on this issue, but agree with the results.

What pissed me off is that an election was held, the majority of people spoke and now the courts are getting involved.

That's democracy?

[westmanguy]

I've accepted it fine, and I think the results need to be upheld.

All that disappoints me is that 52% of Californians had this opinion in the first place.

What's really ironic, to me, is it's black people, and Hispanics (heavily Catholic), and racial minorities who pushed this over the edge. White people made up the bulk of the pro-same sex marriage vote.

Odd, blacks, who faced laws banning interracial marriage in California 50 years ago, vote in high numbers to ban same sex marriage.