[DerbyX]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

But they have enough gas to "fight" somalis on a barge with a 30 HP Johnson engine and a lee enfield!

Perhaps a methinks as a military man yourself you seem to be missing or ignoring a few points. Harper was the self appointed champion of the military and the guy that most of you military types proudly stated would put real money back into the military. Afterall he promised so much. Time and again his military promises have been broken in favour of other funding and worse yet he cancelled many already in the works purchases yet all we hear about are "he's got priorities".

So did the Liberals in '93 yet less military support of the Harpers's CPC is expected then of the party that gave us the so called "decade of darkness".

The navy might not be dukeing it out in Afghanistan but of the branches it requires the greatest promise and commitment to long term vision in order to make multi-billion dollar purchases or years from now we'll reap the neglect.

Harper has (or had) the money now. 8.8 billion in pork and now a proven record of funding the war effort far less the the Liberals and yet somehow the equates to him "loving the military" and the Libs "hating them".

It seems to me that if you guys are so satisfied with the minimal effort for the military on Harpers behalf then you weren't being honest about the Liberal lack of support or won't have any reason to bitch about funding when they get back in be it this election or the next.

Quite frankly the way this is shaping up is that Harper will continue his lacklustre economic performance and because he has no money to invest in the military (it all went to pork) the years of regrowth will be nullifyed and he'll hand a deficit and weakened military back over to the Liberals who will then be blamed for the state of the military because they didn't fix everything back in the 90's and early 00's.

The people who should be talking loudly about Harpers lack of support is you guys and if you won't hold him accoutable on the eve of an election then who the hell do you think will?

How you guys can defend Harpers military funding policies when he breaks promises, cancels purchases and now has a record of less actual war funding is beyond me. A lack of proper defence spending certainly won't be the fault of a party villified by the same military who openly supported the very guy damaging it.

[OPP]

martin14 martin14:

small price to pay for our security at home.

You're joking, right? The war in afghanistan is supposed to keep Canada safe from what? The talliban? Al Qaida?

The talliban were never a threat to NA and Al qaida was routed out of the area in a few weeks.

martin14 ->

[PENATRATOR]

The Army had been neglected for a couple of decades. Unless you count the purchase of LSVW's as a good solid investment. The Navy aquired 10 CPF's in the 90's, I am sure you can google the cost of those much needed ships. I make no change to my comment, if there is only so much to go round, then obviously the guys in need the most are the ones going at it in Afghanistan. The ships painting trips can wait when kit and supplies are needed in SW Asia.

[PENATRATOR]

OPP OPP:

martin14 martin14:

small price to pay for our security at home.

You're joking, right? The war in afghanistan is supposed to keep Canada safe from what? The talliban? Al Qaida?

The talliban were never a threat to NA and Al qaida was routed out of the area in a few weeks.

martin14 ->

Any regime that activily supports terrorist and tolerates their training camps and what not, is a threat to the civilized world, Sweden included.
Not to mention the archaic system they had in place, I am really shocked about how so many lefties here are all about human rights and love ins, yet don't recognize the way people are treated under Taliban rule.

[DerbyX]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

The Army had been neglected for a couple of decades. Unless you count the purchase of LSVW's as a good solid investment. The Navy aquired 10 CPF's in the 90's, I am sure you can google the cost of those much needed ships. I make no change to my comment, if there is only so much to go round, then obviously the guys in need the most are the ones going at it in Afghanistan. The ships painting trips can wait when kit and supplies are needed in SW Asia.

Except that the Libs were paying for those CPFs as well as the Halifax classes, a massive deficit and 100 billion more in debt and managed to purchase most of the vehicles listed on the army page including the now legendary LAV-IIIs and they did with the army spitting in its face the entire time.

Harper has way more money and apparently is funding the war effort some 56% less then the Libs forcing the military to pay for it out of its operating budget.

As for "only so much to go around", who's fault is that?

Perhaps now you understand why people like Boots thought wasting 400 million dollars on another election that cost us taxpayers billions in pre-election pork and will likely see more tax cuts and thus even less to go around for the military. Even though I might personally benefit from lower taxes I am more concerned with going into deficit again and the complete lack of willingness to increase our arctic soverignty with funding.

I am however no longer sympathatic to the military crying poor and foul at the Liberals when they did everything possible to enable that funding to increase all the while the CPC is lauded when they did nect to nothing to actually increase spending.

Quite frankly if the Libs pull off a shocker or form some kind of Lib-NDP coalition and have enough seats to bully the CPC then I hope the military is prepared to reap what it sows when the 2 parties vilified by them are in charge of the funding.

[DerbyX]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Any regime that activily supports terrorist and tolerates their training camps and what not, is a threat to the civilized world, Sweden included.
Not to mention the archaic system they had in place, I am really shocked about how so many lefties here are all about human rights and love ins, yet don't recognize the way people are treated under Taliban rule.

Pretty sentiments but not only was the US fully aware of these conditions they were prepared to ignore them before and after 9/11 in exchange of OBL. In addition you righties laughed at bleeding heart liberals crying about the deplorable conditions in places like afghanistan because it wasn't your problem just like we don't hear any outcries over far worse conditions around the globe.

Where is Canada in places that are far worse off like Africa?

We could help more people with less money without the need to waste billions fighting a useless war diminishing our reputation worldwide and causing rifts within our own country as partisan lines are drawn.

[Donny_Brasco]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Not to mention the archaic system they had in place, I am really shocked about how so many lefties here are all about human rights and love ins, yet don't recognize the way people are treated under Taliban rule.

Thats fucking bullshit.

These wars have nothing to do with freeing people or ending terrorism.

If the point was to end tyrrany and free people from oppression and snuff out terrorism then the Saudi's would be in big shit.

The Taliban, as you know, are American trained dogs who turned on their masters, just like Saddam. Pakistan will be next even though they have some resembalance of a democratic government there. UNLIKE THE SAUDI'S.

So stuff your "Freeing people from Tyrrany" bullshit in a sack and go sell it to some other suckers.

We are more likely to be attacked by Taliban and other terrorists if we follow Americans into their fucked up messes instead of minding our own.

[OPP]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

OPP OPP:

martin14 martin14:

small price to pay for our security at home.

You're joking, right? The war in afghanistan is supposed to keep Canada safe from what? The talliban? Al Qaida?

The talliban were never a threat to NA and Al qaida was routed out of the area in a few weeks.

martin14 ->

Any regime that activily supports terrorist and tolerates their training camps and what not, is a threat to the civilized world, Sweden included.

Al Qaida has been in Afghanistan since 1988, before the Soviet Union pulled out. They were funded, trained and organized by the CIA and were (is) a CIA asset. The head of the organization in '88 was Usama Bin Ladin. The one and the same accused of orchestrating 9/11.
So cut the bull. The US is a threat to Sweden, not some "cave dwelling islamofascists". That's ridiculous.
The Taliban requested evidence from the U.S of Al Qaida involvment in the 9/11 attacks, which they never recieved, before they would act on these accusations.
To this day Usama Bin Laden is not regarded as a suspect by the FBI in the 9/11 attacks.

$1:

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world. - FBI

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

$1:

Not to mention the archaic system they had in place, I am really shocked about how so many lefties here are all about human rights and love ins, yet don't recognize the way people are treated under Taliban rule.

So, where would the Taliban be on your list of evil governments? 1st? 2nd? 30th?
Why not Burma? Why not North Korea or Saudi Arabia, for that matter! Saudi Arabia have more links to the 9/11 attacks than any other country.
Bombing innocent people to shreds is never justified. You can tell me all about how bad the taliban are but the Taliban is still a better option to war.
Afghanistan is a mess and war was never justified. "You just don't go and invade another country. This is the 21th century - John McCain"

[Schleihauf]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

Thats fucking bullshit.

These wars have nothing to do with freeing people or ending terrorism.

If the point was to end tyrrany and free people from oppression and snuff out terrorism then the Saudi's would be in big shit.

The Taliban, as you know, are American trained dogs who turned on their masters, just like Saddam. Pakistan will be next even though they have some resembalance of a democratic government there. UNLIKE THE SAUDI'S.

So stuff your "Freeing people from Tyrrany" bullshit in a sack and go sell it to some other suckers.

We are more likely to be attacked by Taliban and other terrorists if we follow Americans into their fucked up messes instead of minding our own.

At least the Saudis have electricity and can play soccer.

[OPP]

Schleihauf Schleihauf:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

Thats fucking bullshit.

These wars have nothing to do with freeing people or ending terrorism.

If the point was to end tyrrany and free people from oppression and snuff out terrorism then the Saudi's would be in big shit.

The Taliban, as you know, are American trained dogs who turned on their masters, just like Saddam. Pakistan will be next even though they have some resembalance of a democratic government there. UNLIKE THE SAUDI'S.

So stuff your "Freeing people from Tyrrany" bullshit in a sack and go sell it to some other suckers.

We are more likely to be attacked by Taliban and other terrorists if we follow Americans into their fucked up messes instead of minding our own.

At least the Saudis have electricity and can play soccer.

And that has nothing to do with oil, right?

[Schleihauf]

OPP OPP:

Schleihauf Schleihauf:

At least the Saudis have electricity and can play soccer.

And that has nothing to do with oil, right?

What are you getting at here? Are you saying that the worlds #1 exporter of oil is rich because of all that oil they sell?

[OPP]

Schleihauf Schleihauf:

OPP OPP:

Schleihauf Schleihauf:

At least the Saudis have electricity and can play soccer.

And that has nothing to do with oil, right?

What are you getting at here? Are you saying that the worlds #1 exporter of oil is rich because of all that oil they sell?

What's the question again?

You're saying the Saudis have better living standards than Afghanistan and my question was, I'll spell it out for you; Do you think that perhaps this could have some connection to Saudi Arabias huge deposites of oil and Afghanistans lack of oil?

[Streaker]

OPP OPP:

The US is a threat to Sweden, not some "cave dwelling islamofascists".

Agreed, but I'd replace "Sweden" with "global security".

America is a bully, and the chief threat to global security.

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

We are more likely to be attacked by Taliban and other terrorists if we follow Americans into their fucked up messes instead of minding our own.

Exactly. Go nosing around in other peoples' business and eventually they'll get pissed off.

Sadly, now they'll be pissed off at Canada, too.

[OPP]

Streaker Streaker:

America is a bully, and the chief threat to global security.

And the global economy..

[Schleihauf]

OPP OPP:

What's the question again?

You're saying the Saudis have better living standards than Afghanistan and my question was, I'll spell it out for you; Do you think that perhaps this could have some connection to Saudi Arabias huge deposites of oil and Afghanistans lack of oil?

I think it has to do more with decades of war and instability.