Ridenrain Ridenrain:
There was no way that this could have been done quickly because there was no power structure that could leap in to take over. The Soviets left and the religious fundies moved in because there was no one else. Everyone who might have been able to step in has already been killed or left the country.
Bollocks. The "religious fundies" came to power well after the Soviets left and the factions we helped drive the Soviets away proved to be nothing more then a loose knit band of criminals, tribals, and drug runners. People actually looked at the Taliban as saviours until they simply incorporated those very criminal elements and embraced a strict religious interpretation of islam. That didn't last long. The west certainly played up the religious angle during the cold war as they loved the fact that "holy warriors" were defeating the superior yet godless commies.
We sowed the seeds. We took away the only legit gov't they had and now we magnamously install ourselves as saviours with political hacks like you calling everybody who doesn't agree with you a traitor.
Where were you when we boycotted the Moscow Olympics in protest for the USSR doing what we are doing? No, what they were asked to do by the Afghan gov't and what we decided to do on our own.
I guess you feel we are atoning for past mistakes. At least thats a valid point.
$1:
This is nationbuilding and it takes time. You can't compare this to the rebuilding of Germany after ww2 because Germany was, and had been an industrial state for years before. Afghanistan had little inferstructure left after the Russians left and the taliban pushed them back into the dark ages.
Just as it was before we helped (by "we" I mean the west) make it that way.
I also disagree with your assesment. We could have acomplished much of the reconstruction without the war as all we had to do was donate the material and manpower. It may have been under a islamic religious doctrine but the same type of help would have been done and without the great cost associated with war. It would take just as long for their attitudes to adjust to a more modern thinking (as we are seeing in other islamic countries that are bowing to western media scrutiny) as you seem to think this "nation building"will take. We would have far less killing and quite likely far less drug production.
$1:
The Libs thought it was worth the effort when we started and the mission has not changed! They need to stop playing politics and remember why we were there in the first place.
The Libs supported the mission to get OBL, which was the only real mission. Had they handed him over back then we wouldn't be there and if we weren't follwoing the US we wouldn't be there. Nobody gave a fuck in all the years prior even though we knew exactly what was going on. We went in to capture somebody and it was never supposed to be about attacking a gov't that posed no threat to us whatsoever. Even the argument that we are denying a base of operations for terrorist groups holds little water becasue we can all see for ourselfs that they effortlessly moved into other regions.
Of course this is to say nothing about Iraq which we are now connected to via the fact that the US is running both wars even ignoring the fact that HArper would have had us in both wars.
Its a sick joke listening to you tell everybody else to stop playing politics when you do no such thing.
When Chretien didn't support Iraq who wa sit that attacked him relentlessly? Who are the people constantly attacking anybody who doesn't agree to your level of support for Afghanistan? Who are the people calling every other CDN a traitor if they don't support exactly as you do?
You didn't "pull togeather" from the outset of the mission. You used Chretiens refusal to support Iraq as a political point to attack his gov't and not once since 9/11 have you ever made the appeal that "Canada needs to stand united" in this tiome of war. At every turn you have used every death, every point, every conceivable event to use as a political point against the Liberals.
In short, you are hardly the person to talk.
CKA Uber 
