[Alta_redneck]

lily lily:

With all the city folk moving out into the ranchland, my guess is he knew there would be legal questions, so he did it by the book. Regardless of the outcome, they're still neighbours.

Your right Lily, when a farmer is dealing with city folks the farmer has to cover his ass. The only legal question here is where were the dogs shot. He can't chase them out of his pasture and then shoot them in their own yard. Other than that it's case closed.

[Alta_redneck]

Brenda Brenda:

Still, they didn't kill any cattle (yet), so to my Dutch way of thinking (where every property is fenced, or barbwired and guns are not allowed, cats roam freely through your garden and make a mess out of it, and nothing can be done about it, but ask the owners, who will think "f*ck you"..., and dogs are leashed) it is kinda harsh to shoot Golden Retrievers...

The next time I run into one of the many Dutch dairy farmers that live around here, I’ll ask them how much his cow’s milk production would go down if they were being chased by dogs all the time.

This has nothing to do with killing cows, it’s about cows getting stressed out and running pounds off of them, that the farmer is paying hard earned money to put on them so he can sell them and make a profit at the end of the day.

[Brenda]

What do Dutch dairy farmers have to do with this? That I am Dutch, and not a farmer, does not make everybody else who's Dutch think like I do!

Geesh!

Next time, quote my entire post, will you?

[Alta_redneck]

Brenda Brenda:

What do Dutch dairy farmers have to do with this? That I am Dutch, and not a farmer, does not make everybody else who's Dutch think like I do!

Geesh!

Next time, quote my entire post, will you?

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

It is a sad story... If you live on 5 hectares of land, why where the dogs off of that property while you were away, and on the flip side, why would someone shoot Golden Retrievers??? Just calling them in a mad tone of voice should have done the trick too...

Why should a farmer have to wait for dogs of an unknown temperment to harm his herd before he acts?

The onus of responsibility here is with the owner of the dogs who thought their dogs had a right to wander on other people's land.

FYI - cats that come through my yard and bother my pet chickens get a free trip to the pound.

There are a couple cats who pass through and don't bother the chickens and I leave them alone. But that's my choice because I'd be within my rights to take them to the pound, too.

Oh, I agree with you that the owner should have kept the dogs on their own property.

Maybe it has been the 1000th time these dogs are on his land, that is possible, maybe the farmer had warned 999 times.

Still, they didn't kill any cattle (yet), so to my Dutch way of thinking (where every property is fenced, or barbwired and guns are not allowed, cats roam freely through your garden and make a mess out of it, and nothing can be done about it, but ask the owners, who will think "f*ck you"..., and dogs are leashed) it is kinda harsh to shoot Golden Retrievers...

Now what did you want me to do with it.

[IcedCap]

lily lily:

Then why didn't you just say "to my way of thinking"?


It sounds like the case is closed. Even if the family tries to sue, I don't think they'll get very far - their dogs were loose on his property and he has the right to protect his livestock - which could include chickens. I could be wrong, but I don't think the article said what animals were involved.

the law should be changed or actually more accurately defined, simply being loose on property isn't sufficient reason for shooting family pets. The current law would allow shooting them if the dogs were asleep in a basket as long as its on the farmers land.

[Brenda]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Brenda Brenda:

What do Dutch dairy farmers have to do with this? That I am Dutch, and not a farmer, does not make everybody else who's Dutch think like I do!

Geesh!

Next time, quote my entire post, will you?

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

It is a sad story... If you live on 5 hectares of land, why where the dogs off of that property while you were away, and on the flip side, why would someone shoot Golden Retrievers??? Just calling them in a mad tone of voice should have done the trick too...

Why should a farmer have to wait for dogs of an unknown temperment to harm his herd before he acts?

The onus of responsibility here is with the owner of the dogs who thought their dogs had a right to wander on other people's land.

FYI - cats that come through my yard and bother my pet chickens get a free trip to the pound.

There are a couple cats who pass through and don't bother the chickens and I leave them alone. But that's my choice because I'd be within my rights to take them to the pound, too.

Oh, I agree with you that the owner should have kept the dogs on their own property.

Maybe it has been the 1000th time these dogs are on his land, that is possible, maybe the farmer had warned 999 times.

Still, they didn't kill any cattle (yet), so to my Dutch way of thinking (where every property is fenced, or barbwired and guns are not allowed, cats roam freely through your garden and make a mess out of it, and nothing can be done about it, but ask the owners, who will think "f*ck you"..., and dogs are leashed) it is kinda harsh to shoot Golden Retrievers...

Now what did you want me to do with it.

Boy are you childish

You are telling me I am a stupid fool, for not getting it that the cattle might produce less dairy because they were scared by the dogs, but you fail to quote the part where I say the farmer might be right, and then say you are gonna ask Dutch farmers what they think of MY (non-farmer) Dutch opinion

[Brenda]

lily lily:

Then why didn't you just say "to my way of thinking"?

Because the rules in Holland are different, and the Dutch dairy farmers in AB are not doing their work as they should have in Holland. I tried to explain what happens in Holland, on a daily basis, but of course, I should have known it would bite me in the ass.

I am not a farmer, and I would not speak for Dutch farmers, nor for Canadian farmers, or even Etheopian farmers

BTW, I didn't bring in the Dutch farmers, I only brought up my opinion, which will be slightly different from anyone elses here, that is why I mentioned that. European way of thinking is different from North American. Sorry, I will not mention it again. I just wanted to make sure there would be no confusion.

[Brenda]

Alta, my answer to you ended up on page 1...

[Robair]

The breed of dog is not the point. A dog does not have to attack the livestock in order to cause tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage.

Cattle are skidish, if it was a 12 pound terrier running at them and barking, you could end up with running cattle. Never a good thing.

The rancher more than likely did exactly what was needed. Dogs that take to running after livestock don't live very long.

[BartSimpson]

IcedCap IcedCap:

lily lily:

Then why didn't you just say "to my way of thinking"?


It sounds like the case is closed. Even if the family tries to sue, I don't think they'll get very far - their dogs were loose on his property and he has the right to protect his livestock - which could include chickens. I could be wrong, but I don't think the article said what animals were involved.

the law should be changed or actually more accurately defined, simply being loose on property isn't sufficient reason for shooting family pets. The current law would allow shooting them if the dogs were asleep in a basket as long as its on the farmers land.

Instead of changing the law howzabout just asking people who say that they care about their pets to actually act like they do and keep their pets in their yards?

Yes, the farmer killed the dogs.

But would there be any controversy had a pack of wolves killed the dogs? What if a bear killed them? Or a typically ill-mannered moose?

In those cases you'd come back and ask why the owner doesn't take better care of their beloved pet, wouldn't you?

Why is this any different?

[IcedCap]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Instead of changing the law howzabout just asking people who say that they care about their pets to actually act like they do and keep their pets in their yards?

Yes, the farmer killed the dogs.

But would there be any controversy had a pack of wolves killed the dogs? What if a bear killed them? Or a typically ill-mannered moose?

In those cases you'd come back and ask why the owner doesn't take better care of their beloved pet, wouldn't you?

Why is this any different?

Well if this farmer has the same cognitive ability as a wolf, bear or moose then even you might consider taking his firearms away.

The point here is that possibly two family pets were possibly unneccesarily killed (we don't know because no one seems to want to tell the family), yes they shouldn't have been loose but find a dog owner who's pet hasn't some time escaped from a leash. Sorry but saying they were on my property is not justification in itself for shooting Golden Retrievers, if they were harassing livestock then maybe

[BartSimpson]

IcedCap IcedCap:

The point here is that possibly two family pets were possibly unneccesarily killed (we don't know because no one seems to want to tell the family), yes they shouldn't have been loose but find a dog owner who's pet hasn't some time escaped from a leash. Sorry but saying they were on my property is not justification in itself for shooting Golden Retrievers, if they were harassing livestock then maybe

Having been around people like Ken Bell and another friend, California State Senator and rancher Rico Oller, who have had recurring problems with other people's dogs on their land I disagree and I disagree becuase you are refusing to see this from the rancher's point of view.

A prize bull can be valued anywhere from $40,000 to $500,000 and when some dog (even a friendly dog) chases that bull and causes it to break a leg then that animal will be put down at a significant loss to the rancher.

Even the average beef steer is still a valuable animal worth over $1,500 at the low end and losing such a critter is, again, a significant loss to a rancher.

Preventing such a loss can only be accomplished by neutralizing threats to your herd that are posed even by fun-loving slobbering Golden Retrievers.

Let me ask, how much money do you make every year? Now, deduct from your income just the $1,500 you'd lose because some jacktard let their dog harass and lame one of your cattle.

What can't you buy for your kids this year because you lost that income?

Now, move on into the market.

The loss of cattle drives up the price of beef and dairy and that raises prices at the restaurant and the grocery store - something people in Canada typically expect the government to help control.

Well, your government DOES help keep beef and dairy prices down by allowing ranchers to eliminate threats to their herds such as fun-loving slobbering Golden Retrievers.

So if you don't mind higher beef and dairy prices and you'll promise not to bitch about them when they predictably go up then be sure to ask your MP to outlaw the killing of "family pets" who screw around chasing cattle around for sport.

[IcedCap]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Having been around people like Ken Bell and another friend, California State Senator and rancher Rico Oller, who have had recurring problems with other people's dogs on their land I disagree and I disagree becuase you are refusing to see this from the rancher's point of view.

A prize bull can be valued anywhere from $40,000 to $500,000 and when some dog (even a friendly dog) chases that bull and causes it to break a leg then that animal will be put down at a significant loss to the rancher.

Even the average beef steer is still a valuable animal worth over $1,500 at the low end and losing such a critter is, again, a significant loss to a rancher.

Preventing such a loss can only be accomplished by neutralizing threats to your herd that are posed even by fun-loving slobbering Golden Retrievers.

Let me ask, how much money do you make every year? Now, deduct from your income just the $1,500 you'd lose because some jacktard let their dog harass and lame one of your cattle.

What can't you buy for your kids this year because you lost that income?

Now, move on into the market.

The loss of cattle drives up the price of beef and dairy and that raises prices at the restaurant and the grocery store - something people in Canada typically expect the government to help control.

Well, your government DOES help keep beef and dairy prices down by allowing ranchers to eliminate threats to their herds such as fun-loving slobbering Golden Retrievers.

So if you don't mind higher beef and dairy prices and you'll promise not to bitch about them when they predictably go up then be sure to ask your MP to outlaw the killing of "family pets" who screw around chasing cattle around for sport.

As I've said I want the law defined not revoked even the family have said the same it has far too much leeway but lets be absolutely honest here Bart in any situation where someone uses a firearm in protection of their property its not difficult to see which side of the issue you're going to be on is it.

[IcedCap]

lily lily:

$1:

The point here is that possibly two family pets were possibly unneccesarily killed (we don't know because no one seems to want to tell the family),

The police have the facts and have determined he was within the law.

just because he was within the existing 1920s law doesn't mean he needed to kill the dogs that's my point lily.

[neopundit]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

A prize bull can be valued anywhere from $40,000 to $500,000 and when some dog (even a friendly dog) chases that bull and causes it to break a leg then that animal will be put down at a significant loss to the rancher.

I guess they can thank their lucky stars they are domestic animals. Otherwise, nature would have taken care of them bulls a long time ago, not being able to run away without breaking a leg and all.

Not saying you're wrong or anything. You'd just figure you might protect a $500,000 asset with an impenetrable fence, just in case you aren't around with your shotgun.