[PublicAnimalNo9]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Yes, because giving healthy people money for nothing is the best way to raise them up. You know, because people respect what they don't have to work for and earn sooooooo much.

It's also called making people dependent on the govt who don't need to be.

This crap is proof that Trudeau isn't a true Liberal. For YEARS the Liberal position has been that the well being of the individual is the responsibility OF the individual and their family. Welfare is supposed to be a social safety net, not a means to an end.

Look at the Ontario Liberals' bullshit mincome test project. They were giving as much money per month to able-bodied and employed individuals as they do to a COUPLE on ODSP. Funny how the Libtards couldn't ever find the money to give people on ODSP a decent enough increase to at least cover their basic costs of living but they found ALL kinds of cash for for healthy, employed people.

[herbie]

So your gripe is that a UBI proves a dozen agencies and umpteen bureaucracies that do the basically same thing you object to is better?
Or is it you object to Liberals not being Conservatives?

[BeaverFever]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Yes, because giving healthy people money for nothing is the best way to raise them up. You know, because people respect what they don't have to work for and earn sooooooo much.

It's also called making people dependent on the govt who don't need to be.

This crap is proof that Trudeau isn't a true Liberal. For YEARS the Liberal position has been that the well being of the individual is the responsibility OF the individual and their family. Welfare is supposed to be a social safety net, not a means to an end.

Look at the Ontario Liberals' bullshit mincome test project. They were giving as much money per month to able-bodied and employed individuals as they do to a COUPLE on ODSP. Funny how the Libtards couldn't ever find the money to give people on ODSP a decent enough increase to at least cover their basic costs of living but they found ALL kinds of cash for for healthy, employed people.

You’re right. We should get rid of all public services: disability, CPP, EI, police, fire, water, sewer, paramedics, schools.....they just “make people dependent on government”



As long as people don’t transfer the money to offshore accounts like corporations and millionaires do, the money will go back into the economy and the pockets of working Canadians . Your silly complaints about whether people “deserve” or “earn” or “respect” the money is bogus and irrelevant. Do we ask whether people have “earned “ or “respect” their health coverage or “deserve” to have their garbage and recycling picked up at the curb? No we just understand that society works better when everyone has those services.


Also do you not understand thatif UBI had been introduced in Ontario it would have replaced OFSP? Funny that you would oppose UBI because it would pay you more than you currently get.

[llama66]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Yes, because giving healthy people money for nothing is the best way to raise them up. You know, because people respect what they don't have to work for and earn sooooooo much.

It's also called making people dependent on the govt who don't need to be.

This crap is proof that Trudeau isn't a true Liberal. For YEARS the Liberal position has been that the well being of the individual is the responsibility OF the individual and their family. Welfare is supposed to be a social safety net, not a means to an end.

Look at the Ontario Liberals' bullshit mincome test project. They were giving as much money per month to able-bodied and employed individuals as they do to a COUPLE on ODSP. Funny how the Libtards couldn't ever find the money to give people on ODSP a decent enough increase to at least cover their basic costs of living but they found ALL kinds of cash for for healthy, employed people.

You do understand UBI would replace several other social programs, namely Welfare?

Also, not all of us were lucky enough to grow up in the 50's, 60's and 70's where the worker was still able to buy a house and provide for a family on a single income.

UBI isn't the gateway to Stalin's vision of Communism.

In fact, UBI improves wellness, because those making barely enough to survive can afford to go out and buy more groceries, get that dental procedure done, take those kids on a vacation.. live a little. Allow people to save some money.

The UBI would be indexed to income and taxed.

I think if the last 5 months have proven anything, it's that maybe trying the UBI isn't a bad idea.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... work-less/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... oronavirus

[BeaverFever]

[Scape]

Our current welfare system is nothing more that a patch work and is designed to fail. Our disability coverage is even less. It's design is an afterthought and is it long past the point of reform.

Broken lives that are trapped in this system are only making this worse, not better. We need a UBI to git RID of the welfare state. We can then build upon that as required but to think anyone on UBI is just going to be wards of the state is insane when you compare the current system feeble support.

Private business would flourish with UBI as people would be able to work from home, have a 'gig' economy that isn't using starvation wages and every cent of this would be spent into LOCAL economy and not going overseas to multinationals. Taxes would be paid and investments secured while byzantine social services could be dismantled and made effective.

If you want to support small business, there is no better way than by a UBI.

[Thanos]

I support the concept 100%. I also don't think it has a hope in hell of being implemented. And, even if it is, it will only last as long as the Liberals are in power. The next Conservative government will make the abolition of any UBI their first priority and they'll turn it into the biggest political bludgeon ever seen in this country. Don't underestimate the desire of the anti-government social conservative types to engage in moral scolding of the "I made it on my own, why can't those losers do it themselves?". This is a deep & ugly urge in a lot of people, to viciously shame those who (in their eyes) are "failures" - you'd never get through to them and they could care less if they were basically real living examples of the characters and caricatures of the greedy villains in Charles Dickens stories. I've suspected this in the wealthy for a very long time, in that most of the fun of capitalism comes from being so financially safe they're then able to look down from their golden towers on the "lessers". This streak runs too in a great many others, even among members of the working class that's suffering so badly right now, that a lot of them are just so intransigent and simply don't want to see anyone get any help at all, not even if they themselves would be eligible for it and would benefit from it.

There's another problem too. The provinces will most likely fight tooth-and-nail against giving up their control over welfare distribution. It's not like they can't see the economic benefits of UBI. It's that once a power is given up to the feds they never get it back. As much as the likes of the Alberta UCP would like to abolish welfare altogether and go back to the "good old days" from the Klein Era of buying a bus ticket for the "bums" to get the hell out of the province altogether, controlling all their constitutionally-designated levers of power is something they are too addicted to. I can see the Maritimes, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and (maybe) BC co-operating on this idea to a certain exten. Alberta though? Or Quebec? Not a fucking chance.

If it was implemented it would be Justin Trudeau's true legacy, along with what objectively has to be considered a very deft handling of the COVID crisis (the WE charity scandal notwithstanding). The political fight over this idea though? Jayzus, it could be the worst, most vicious, and most divisive one to hit this country since the Quebec referendum of 1995.

[BeaverFever]

I think if it was implemented and truly “universal” ie everyone received not simply for lowest income brackets it would be very hard for conservatives to take away.


I think if implemented at the federal level it would very hard for the provinces to obstruct. Sure they could keep their provincial welfare programs, but with UBI paying their citizens , why would they? I think it would be very hard to resist spending that money elsewhere,, Especially if the feds reduce social transfers as a result.

[bootlegga]

herbie herbie:

So your gripe is that a UBI proves a dozen agencies and umpteen bureaucracies that do the basically same thing you object to is better?
Or is it you object to Liberals not being Conservatives?

He's saying what he always says: Trudeau bad man.