[Thanos]

Where you find people with too much money in their grasp for their own moral health you'll also find slavery. And multiple other forms of cruelty that seem to go hand-in-hand with wealth.

[CharlesAnthony]

^^ Yup.

It does not matter exactly where the slavery is occurring. Most of our affluent 1stWorldProblem life-style depends on cheap oil ---- most of which comes from slave labor.

[llama66]

$1:

Most of our affluent 1stWorldProblem life-style depends on cheap oil ---- most of which comes from slave labor.

Most roughnecks in Alberta make (made) $70,000+ per year. Hardly slavery.

[Strutz]

Both countries are to blame IMO. Women are often treated as garbage by both of them.

$1:

An AP investigation earlier this year revealed how Pakistan's Christian minority has become a new target of brokers who pay impoverished parents to marry off their daughters, some of them teenagers, to Chinese husbands who return with them to their homeland. Many of the brides are then isolated and abused or forced into prostitution in China, often contacting home and pleading to be brought back.

The AP spoke to police and court officials and more than a dozen brides — some of whom made it back to Pakistan, others who remained trapped in China — as well as remorseful parents, neighbours, relatives and human rights workers.

Christians are targeted because they are one of the poorest communities in Muslim-majority Pakistan. The trafficking rings are made up of Chinese and Pakistani middlemen and include Christian ministers, mostly from small evangelical churches, who get bribes to urge their flock to sell their daughters. Investigators have also turned up at least one Muslim cleric running a marriage bureau from his madrassa, or religious school.

Religion is an awful thing.

[DrCaleb]

Strutz Strutz:

Religion is an awful thing.

No, most are quite beautiful. It's the extremists that aren't.

[llama66]

I don't care for Religion. Most people can't understand the underlying message of "don't be a dick"

[DrCaleb]

[herbie]

llama66 llama66:

I don't care for Religion. Most people can't understand the underlying message of "don't be a dick"

Problem is that religious people don't think humans are smart enough to figure that out all by themselves. It HAS TO be dictated by an imagined deity.

[Sunnyways]

There are some interesting supply and demand factors here. In Pakistan, many of the Christians are descendants of lower caste Hindus and Dalits, and despite the fact that they are in a Muslim country this still counts against them when they look for work in a desperately poor country. Across the border, China’s one-child policy has created a massive surplus of men, something like 35 million, who can’t find wives and are scouring Asia for female company.

[N_Fiddledog]

I imagine you'd have the same explanation for this known practice then, would you, Sunny?

Link
Pakistani Christians abducted, raped and forced into marriage

$1:

Pakistani Christian girls have been abducted, raped and forced to marry their rapists, according to human rights lawyers who try to rescue these women from their captors. The abducted girls are forced to convert to Islam, which makes their subsequent marriages legal under Pakistani law.

[N_Fiddledog]

Not everybody agrees with you, Sunny:

Pakistan: "Christian Girls Are Only Meant for the Pleasure of Muslim Men"

$1:

* "Around 700 Christian women in Pakistan are abducted, raped and forced into Islamic marriage every year – that figure is almost two a day and the world does nothing." — Wilson Chowdhry, human rights activist, citing the Muslim non-governmental organization, "Movement of Solidarity and Peace."

* "Christian girls are considered goods to be damaged at leisure. Abusing them is a right. According to the community's mentality it is not even a crime. Muslims regard them as spoils of war." — Local residents, Pakistan.

Three Christian girls in Pakistan, who rejected the advances of some wealthy Muslim young men, were recently mauled by them. One of the girls died.

The London-born Chairman of the British Pakistani Christian Association (BPCA) and human rights activist, Wilson Chowdhry, who broke the story, reported that one of the men had said: "Christian girls are only meant for one thing, the [sexual] pleasure of Muslim men."

The incident occurred on January 13 in Lahore. The three girls—aged 17, 18, and 20—were walking home after a hard day's work. Four Muslim youths in a vehicle followed the girls and accosted them. The men "misbehaved," yelled "suggestive and lewd comments," and harassed the girls to get in their car for "a ride and some fun."

The girls declined the "invitation," and added that they were "devout Christians and did not practice sex outside of marriage."

This caused an immediate change in the demeanour of the boys who became more aggressive and started to threaten the girls to enter the car or to be physically forced in. Terrified of the increasingly dangerous situation they were in the girls started to run in a fit of panic. This only enraged the young Muslim men further, one of them shouted out at the girls, he said: "How dare you run away from us, Christian girls are only meant for one thing, the pleasure of Muslim men..."

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7289 ... tian-girls

Those four Pakistani men didn't want to touch the Christian girls because they were "untouchables." It was because they were Christians. Or at least that's what they said.

[Sunnyways]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I imagine you'd have the same explanation for this known practice then, would you, Sunny?

Link
Pakistani Christians abducted, raped and forced into marriage

$1:

Pakistani Christian girls have been abducted, raped and forced to marry their rapists, according to human rights lawyers who try to rescue these women from their captors. The abducted girls are forced to convert to Islam, which makes their subsequent marriages legal under Pakistani law.

I might not have made my post clear enough and you could have asked me for clarification. Anti-Christian sectarianism is obvious in Pakistan too but I am drawing attention to something that is more embarrassing to Pakistani Muslims than just regular old-fashioned bigotry. Despite its denials, Pakistan shares many of India’s worst traits - casteism, shadeism, misogyny - while India is now trying to match its neighbour on the religious nuttery front.
Pakistan has its own particular demons but it’s part of a larger South Asian problem:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ed-rapists

[Sunnyways]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Not everybody agrees with you, Sunny:

Pakistan: "Christian Girls Are Only Meant for the Pleasure of Muslim Men"

$1:

[color=#000000]* "Around 700 Christian women in Pakistan are abducted, raped and forced into Islamic marriage every year – that figure is almost two a day and the world does nothing." — Wilson Chowdhry, human rights activist, citing the Muslim non-governmental organization, "Movement of Solidarity and Peace."

* "Christian girls are considered goods to be damaged at leisure. Abusing them is a right. According to the community's mentality it is not even a crime. Muslims regard them as spoils of war." — Local residents, Pakistan.


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7289 ... tian-girls

Those four Pakistani men didn't want to touch the Christian girls because they were "untouchables." It was because they were Christians. Or at least that's what they said.

I have no intention of defending anti-Christian attacks in Pakistan. The religious hysteria in that country is appalling. I’m just adding something that may not be so well known.

The other elephant in the room here is the power of the Chinese state. So far, we’ve had the merest brush with it in Canada and the experience has not been pleasant.

[N_Fiddledog]

Good, so we can trash-bin this below as any kind of totality of an explanation as to what's happening then.

$1:

many of the Christians are descendants of lower caste Hindus and Dalits, and despite the fact that they are in a Muslim country this still counts against them

I doubt it matters much, if at all, myself. That isn't why Pakistanis think less of Christians. Fighter will tell us they don't and he has some pictures of a Pakistani Christmas celebration from a few years back to prove it. Myself I think you're both wrong.

[Sunnyways]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Good, so we can trash-bin this below as any kind of totality of an explanation as to what's happening then.

$1:

many of the Christians are descendants of lower caste Hindus and Dalits, and despite the fact that they are in a Muslim country this still counts against them

I doubt it matters much, if at all, myself. That isn't why Pakistanis think less of Christians. Fighter will tell us they don't and he has some pictures of a Christmas celebration from a few years back to prove it. Myself I think you're both wrong.

Caste still matters in Pakistan. It goes by other names now but it is still there.

$1:

It is now Muslims, especially in Punjab, who maintain a caste hierarchy. And since Islamic beliefs don’t include a caste system, the discrimination cannot be defined in terms of caste and is labeled religious. This shift was illustrated by turning Bibi’s quarrel over sharing water into blasphemy.

Perhaps Asia Bibi mentioned to her three accusers how the Muslim prophet and religion did not permit such discrimination. But in Pakistan, neither the Christians, who are understood to have been low-caste Hindus, nor the Muslims, who have adopted the role of their high-caste coreligionists, can refer to the vanished past that mediates their relations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/opin ... istan.html

$1:

In 1947, there were two types of Christians in what was then known as West Pakistan: landless, unskilled, poor labourers and peasants living in villages across central Punjab, and educated Christian professionals, mostly Anglo-Indians and Goans, who lived in big cities such as Karachi and Lahore. The former are generally converts to Christianity from low-caste Hindus and the latter from upper-caste Hindus as well as Muslims.

Faced with cultural, political and economic isolation, Christians in Pakistan embarked on two different trajectories of migration. Punjabi Christians started leaving villages to shift to Church-developed Christian-only neighbourhoods in, or just outside, main cities. Anglo-Indians and Goans left in droves to Europe and North America....

.... Manu Smriti, or ‘The Laws of Manu’, the most authoritative Hindu scripture on the caste system, categorised them as executioners. “[You] shall always execute the criminals, in accordance with the law,” it said while assigning chuhras their duties. The jail employee who tied the noose around Bhutto’s neck in 1979, Tara Masih, came from the same community as did his father who had executed the anti-British hero Bhagat Singh in 1931.

https://thewire.in/religion/pakistan-punjabi-christians

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35910331

https://repository.library.georgetown.e ... 822/761014

https://www.thefridaytimes.com/christia ... -sweepers/