[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

If you had a kid, and it died from getting measles from an anti-vaxxxers kid . . .

Ah...you finally went there!! Thank you!!!

I've so often tried to troll you into making this statement and I failed only to have you give it to me on a silver platter!!!

Now that you've said this then let's ask the question:

What in fuck in the point of a vaccination if it's fucking useless when you get exposed to the disease it was supposed to protect you from???

Does it or does it not work???

And kindly don't argue 'herd immunity' with me when the vectors for these recent epidemics are immigrants coming in from other countries absent the health and vaccination screenings we did away with because such things are 'racist'.

Also, in the USA by law the children of illegal immigrants are not required to have the same vaccinations as everyone else in order to attend public schools.

https://dailycaller.com/2014/09/10/feds ... screening/

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What in fuck in the point of a vaccination if it's fucking useless when you get exposed to the disease it was supposed to protect you from???

Does it or does it not work???

Yes. Do you see the huge number of people who can't walk because of polio? How about all the people dropping dead from Rubella or are sterile because they got the Mumps?

'For God's sake, vaccinate your children': Measles survivor still feels the effects after 69 years

And don't take my word for it:

$1:

Misconceptions about Flu Vaccine Effectiveness

Flu vaccination can keep you from getting sick with flu.

Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2016-2017, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 5.3 million influenza illnesses, 2.6 million influenza-associated medical visits, and 85,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations.

In seasons when the vaccine viruses matched circulating strains, flu vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of having to go to the doctor with flu by 40 percent to 60 percent.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/misconceptions.htm

There’s good news about the flu vaccine this year, especially for kids

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And kindly don't argue 'herd immunity' with me when the vectors for these recent epidemics are immigrants coming in from other countries absent the health and vaccination screenings we did away with because such things are 'racist'.

Herd immunity is the reason people need to be vaccinated, and it is actually racist that you think it's immigrants, because the outbreaks in New York and Washington were started by US citizens on vacation who brought it back from other countries into communities that refused to be vaccinated.

$1:

Nearly one in four Clark County kindergarten students during the 2017-18 school year did not get all their immunizations, according to data from the Washington Department of Health. At three schools in the county, more than 40 percent of kindergartners did not receive all recommended shots before starting school.

"When you have large numbers of unimmunized people and you introduce measles into that population, it's like putting a lighted match into a can of gasoline," said Alan Melnick, Clark County's public health director. "It will just spread pretty quickly."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 812667002/

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Also, in the USA by law the children of illegal immigrants are not required to have the same vaccinations as everyone else in order to attend public schools.

[citation needed]

Sorry, your link does not have the air of credibility, and a search of relevant sites turns up no information. This is called a 'zombie statistic'.

https://vaxopedia.org/2017/02/22/are-im ... ed-states/

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What in fuck in the point of a vaccination if it's fucking useless when you get exposed to the disease it was supposed to protect you from???

Does it or does it not work???

Yes. Do you see the huge number of people who can't walk because of polio? How about all the people dropping dead from Rubella or are sterile because they got the Mumps?

Then how the hell does someone who is not vaccinated pose any threat at all to someone who is vaccinated?

See, with measles, mumps, and rubella I keep hearing that people who are not vaccinated pose a threat to people who are vaccinated.

That makes me question the efficacy of these vaccines because as you pointed out there are no such problems with the dead virus polio vaccine and more to the point, the smallpox vaccine was so damned awesome that if you were vaccinated you were 100% safe around people who had it.

And please don't think I'm anti-vaccine, I'm not. I just refuse to attribute vaccines with magical properties simply because we call them 'vaccines'.

I'm just as skeptical of vaccines as I am any product produced by the big pharmaceutical firms who brought us safe drugs like thalidomide, valium, fentanyl, and oxycontin.

[llama66]

Vaccination=/=Immunity. You can still get the disease, however your body will be better equipped to fight it. You get really sick because your body lacks the antibodies to fight a disease like measles or polio, however once vaccinated you develop these antibodies and they can fight off the disease, simply put you stand a better chance at beating a disease if you are vaccinated.

[Tricks]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Then how the hell does someone who is not vaccinated pose any threat at all to someone who is vaccinated?

Some people can't get the vaccine. It's also not 100% effective. Two doses bring it to 97% effectiveness. Once the population reaches 92% immunity, outbreaks don't happen, too many people are immune to it for it to travel. So even those who can't get the vaccine, or where it wasn't effective, aren't then infected by it. That's what herd immunity is.

Do you think it's a coincidence that after the vaccine was introduced the rates of the disease plummeted?

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What in fuck in the point of a vaccination if it's fucking useless when you get exposed to the disease it was supposed to protect you from???

Does it or does it not work???

Yes. Do you see the huge number of people who can't walk because of polio? How about all the people dropping dead from Rubella or are sterile because they got the Mumps?

Then how the hell does someone who is not vaccinated pose any threat at all to someone who is vaccinated?

See, with measles, mumps, and rubella I keep hearing that people who are not vaccinated pose a threat to people who are vaccinated.

That makes me question the efficacy of these vaccines because as you pointed out there are no such problems with the dead virus polio vaccine and more to the point, the smallpox vaccine was so damned awesome that if you were vaccinated you were 100% safe around people who had it.

And please don't think I'm anti-vaccine, I'm not. I just refuse to attribute vaccines with magical properties simply because we call them 'vaccines'.

I'm just as skeptical of vaccines as I am any product produced by the big pharmaceutical firms who brought us safe drugs like thalidomide, valium, fentanyl, and oxycontin.

It's not the vaccinated people who have to worry about the unvaccinated; it's the people who can't be vaccinated or who's immune systems won't protect them.

Children under 6 months can't be vaccinated, and children who haven't had booster shots haven't developed full immunity until they get them, usually by age 2. Until then, they are vulnerable. Same with the elderly.

As we age, our immune systems weakens, and we become vulnerable even if we have been vaccinated. It's the herd immunity that protects these people, and the strength of the disease means there needs to be more herd immunity to protect these groups.

https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/stories/wh ... -immunity/

More statistics in our daily life.

[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

Do you think it's a coincidence that after the vaccine was introduced the rates of the disease plummeted?

Of course not. So why have both of our countries refused to resume the stringent vaccination standards for immigrants that we had up until this past decade?

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's not the vaccinated people who have to worry about the unvaccinated; it's the people who can't be vaccinated or who's immune systems won't protect them.

Then someone who is not vaccinated poses no threat to your kids who are vaccinated.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's not the vaccinated people who have to worry about the unvaccinated; it's the people who can't be vaccinated or who's immune systems won't protect them.

Then someone who is not vaccinated poses no threat to your kids who are vaccinated.

Wrong. Vaccines may not be 100% effective. Like I wrote before, herd immunity is also very important to reduce the spread. The unvaccinated can also be carriers that spread diseases long before it affects them.

https://www.chop.edu/news/feature-artic ... -pose-risk

[llama66]

You still get the illness if you are vaccinated. The effects are more muted. But if you are immuno -compromised say from getting over the flu or currently have a cold the disease can overwhelm the antibodies and can become very ill or even die from the disease you are vaccinated from.

[BartSimpson]

llama66 llama66:

You still get the illness if you are vaccinated.

I have access to a database of healthcare outcomes for over 100 million people and you know what I never see?

Not one person who was vaccinated for polio contracting polio from another person.

Not one person vaccinated for diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DTAP) contracting it after they were vaccinated.

Varicella vaccinations are spotty and from what I can see you're slightly more susceptible to it if you have the vaccine than not.

Flu vaccines are beyond useless.

Speaking of the flu vaccines...in one study of a flu vaccine two out of a thousand recipients died from reactions to the vaccine.

But that's not the winning moment in this case, oh no. The fucking PLACEBO killed eighteen people!!!

Seems there's all sorts of rules about the drugs but not shit on what goes into a placebo!

In any case it either works or it doesn't.

[DrCaleb]

It's obvious then, ban placebos.

llama66 llama66:

You still get the illness if you are vaccinated. The effects are more muted. But if you are immuno -compromised say from getting over the flu or currently have a cold the disease can overwhelm the antibodies and can become very ill or even die from the disease you are vaccinated from.

^^^

This is why I encourage everyone to get a flu shot. It might not be 100% effective for the strain that year, but if you get it the effects will be considerably less than if you didn't get it.

Just as Martin if a jab in the arm (that you hardly feel) would be worth lessening his misery.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's obvious then, ban placebos.

I'm not a researcher but I have asked why they use anything other than just saline as a placebo and and I never get the same answer twice...which is a major BS indicator to me.

My suspicion is that in at least some of these tests what's actually being tested is in whatever is being labeled as the placebo.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's obvious then, ban placebos.

I'm not a researcher but I have asked why they use anything other than just saline as a placebo and and I never get the same answer twice...which is a major BS indicator to me.

My suspicion is that in at least some of these tests what's actually being tested is in whatever is being labeled as the placebo.

In a proper double blind study - researchers don't know which is medicine and which is placebo.

And it's tough to give saline or glucose in pill form. It might be the ingredients in a pill that kill people due to allergies. Ya never know. That's why we are nerds, not researchers.

[llama66]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

llama66 llama66:

You still get the illness if you are vaccinated.

I have access to a database of healthcare outcomes for over 100 million people and you know what I never see?

Not one person who was vaccinated for polio contracting polio from another person.

Not one person vaccinated for diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DTAP) contracting it after they were vaccinated.

Varicella vaccinations are spotty and from what I can see you're slightly more susceptible to it if you have the vaccine than not.

Flu vaccines are beyond useless.

Speaking of the flu vaccines...in one study of a flu vaccine two out of a thousand recipients died from reactions to the vaccine.

But that's not the winning moment in this case, oh no. The fucking PLACEBO killed eighteen people!!!

Seems there's all sorts of rules about the drugs but not shit on what goes into a placebo!

In any case it either works or it doesn't.

Polio was "eradicated" in the 1960's, I bet there is not a lot of Human to Human transmission of Small Pox or Scarlet Fever anymore either... You may thank Vaccines.

Of course people can get sick from a Varicella Vaccination... its a weakened, but live vaccine.

Tetanus vaccinations generally happen AFTER you've lanced your foot with a rusty nail (something like that), So no, generally people don't get sick after that vaccination.

The problem with the Flu vaccination is they only work for the strain you are vaccinated for, so if you are vaccinated for the H1N1 variant, and you catch the H1N2 strain, yeah, you got a needle for nothing.