[llama66]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

llama66 llama66:

This is why we'll never win the war on terror. It's a war on an ideology, not a nation state.

We won against Japanese militarism, Italian Fascism, and National Socialism. All three were ideologies and all three were utterly defeated.

But you cannot defeat radical and fundamentalist Islam when our leaders are unwilling to call it out for what it is.

That's why we can't win is because we're not willing to win.

Not disagreeing with you, sir... but- One thing all your examples have in common was there were nations associated with those Ideologies. Japan, Italy and Germany. We killed enough Germans, Italians, and Japanese to make them see the error in their ways. (In Japan's case you Nuked them.. twice)

This is Religion. People do stupid shit in the name of their god.

[raydan]

llama66 llama66:

This is Religion. People do stupid shit in the name of their god.

Like going door to door with pamphlets.

[llama66]

raydan raydan:

llama66 llama66:

This is Religion. People do stupid shit in the name of their god.

Like going door to door with pamphlets.

[Sunnyways]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

llama66 llama66:

This is why we'll never win the war on terror. It's a war on an ideology, not a nation state.

We won against Japanese militarism, Italian Fascism, and National Socialism. All three were ideologies and all three were utterly defeated.

But you cannot defeat radical and fundamentalist Islam when our leaders are unwilling to call it out for what it is.

That's why we can't win is because we're not willing to win.

They were national ideologies, two of them of recent origin with shallow roots, in relatively advanced countries. All that was needed was to defeat the countries involved and get them on a different track. In Vietnam, the local ideology that combined nationalism and communism defeated the Americans.

The current phase of radical Islam will rise and fall of its own accord as these societies adjust to change but it will take at least a generation. A military solution is not feasible.

[N_Fiddledog]

They've had 1400 years. When were you expecting this "adjustment to change?"

[PluggyRug]

and on a lighter note...

[BartSimpson]

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

The current phase of radical Islam will rise and fall of its own accord as these societies adjust to change but it will take at least a generation. A military solution is not feasible.

A military solution is feasible but our leaders and too many in our societies are unwilling to employ the military to deliver an annihilating and devastating defeat to these vermin.

We can defeat these people and their ideologies but we're not willing to employ the levels of brutality and savagery that are required to defeat brutal savages.

[BartSimpson]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

They've had 1400 years. When were you expecting this "adjustment to change?"

[llama66]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

The current phase of radical Islam will rise and fall of its own accord as these societies adjust to change but it will take at least a generation. A military solution is not feasible.

A military solution is feasible but our leaders and too many in our societies are unwilling to employ the military to deliver an annihilating and devastating defeat to these vermin.

We can defeat these people and their ideologies but we're not willing to employ the levels of brutality and savagery that are required to defeat brutal savages.

I think the hard part for many is ordering the engagement of women and children too. That's heavy. You practically need to order a crusade, and see it through to the end regardless of the cost in human lives, and regardless of public opinion or consequence. We're talking the wholesale slaughter of 20% of the human population. (I'm assuming that an "order 66" goes out and our militaries are to kill every muslim, extremist or not. A final solution to the Muslim question, if you will.) It'll be a war that'll last 40 years and leave swathes of the planet uninhabitable for decades.

I'd rather there not be this bleak and brutal response, when I feel it much easier if we perform 21st century Marshall plan. Rebuild the middle east, help them get gainful employment.. you'd see extremism fall dramatically, and we'd see refugee claims also fall dramatically. These youth would no longer feel helpless, and thus they'd be less susceptible to extremist recruitment. Hell we wouldn't need to maintain a presence in these places once the plan was complete.

[N_Fiddledog]

There's a 3rd way if you're just talking anything goes defeating of western society's Islamic enemy.

Segregate them. Change the law. Keep Islam out of the west. Organizations, Islamic investment and religion - banned. Islamic immigration suspended.

Then it's up to them. If they want to aggress you have your military solution.

That's if we're just trying to figure out how Jihad - from immigration to terror - could be defeated once and for all with a military solution, I mean. Just as an intellectual exercise.

[llama66]

A way I did not think of... Like an iron curtain. Hmmm... How would that be implemented? How would we know the difference between Hindu and Muslim? Do allow some but not others? It's interesting. I'm going to think about this option

[BartSimpson]

llama66 llama66:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

A military solution is feasible but our leaders and too many in our societies are unwilling to employ the military to deliver an annihilating and devastating defeat to these vermin.

We can defeat these people and their ideologies but we're not willing to employ the levels of brutality and savagery that are required to defeat brutal savages.

I think the hard part for many is ordering the engagement of women and children too. That's heavy. You practically need to order a crusade, and see it through to the end regardless of the cost in human lives, and regardless of public opinion or consequence. We're talking the wholesale slaughter of 20% of the human population. (I'm assuming that an "order 66" goes out and our militaries are to kill every muslim, extremist or not. A final solution to the Muslim question, if you will.) It'll be a war that'll last 40 years and leave swathes of the planet uninhabitable for decades.

I'd rather there not be this bleak and brutal response, when I feel it much easier if we perform 21st century Marshall plan. Rebuild the middle east, help them get gainful employment.. you'd see extremism fall dramatically, and we'd see refugee claims also fall dramatically. These youth would no longer feel helpless, and thus they'd be less susceptible to extremist recruitment. Hell we wouldn't need to maintain a presence in these places once the plan was complete.

We do engage women and children and that's the ironic part of this.

See, for some odd reason it's okay to kill women and children so long as we do it indiscriminately with bombs and drones. The problem is that the indiscriminate killings are all too often (IMHO) murders of innocents who have FA to do with terrorism.

But then after we slaughter thirty or forty innocent people at a funeral or a wedding we get all shocked and surprised when that radicalizes more people that the goddamned radicals would have been able to radicalize on their own!

What needs to happen here is to identify the terrorists and the people who radicalize and finance them.

Then hunt down and kill the terrorists, their preachers, and their Saudi financiers with extreme prejudice.

That means sending in people on the ground to execute these mutts up close and personal. And then you kill their families to make sure the second generation doesn't come back for revenge in twenty years.

The mosques that harbor radical preachers get leveled. And not by indiscriminate bombs or drones but by tanks and artillery and by rude, nasty troops who go into these places and deliberately desecrate them. Piss in their foot baths and shit on their carpets because these are not holy places, they are bases of operation.

After a while the word gets out that terrorism against the West results in unspeakable and unlimited and horrific prices to be paid by the people, families, preachers, bankers, and communities who support terror.

And then there will be peace.

[llama66]

I always thought a good way to deal with Terrorists would be to make them the harbingers of death. Find out what village they hide in, and kill everyone in that village... then, when they went to the next village, kill them too, eventually these villages would stop harboring these terrorists, purely out of self preservation... The terrorists would be engaged by their own supporters. It would force the terrorists out into the wilds where spy satellites would be able to identify these camps for drones to action.

But also go after the financiers, imams, the saudi backers, and anyone else who advocates jihad against the west.

[martin14]

llama66 llama66:

I think the hard part for many is ordering the engagement of women and children too. That's heavy. You practically need to order a crusade, and see it through to the end regardless of the cost in human lives, and regardless of public opinion or consequence.

Harris and Le May had no problem with it, and that was only 70 years ago.

It is the West that has become fat, weak, and vulnerable.

$1:

I'd rather there not be this bleak and brutal response, when I feel it much easier if we perform 21st century Marshall plan.

Giving them money wont help either.
When you give people stuff, they treat it like shit.
Much better when they work for it.
The Saudis have money beyond measure. They keep it for the family, the rest of the
country is a shithole, and exports most of the terror around.

llama66 llama66:

Not disagreeing with you, sir... but- One thing all your examples have in common was there were nations associated with those Ideologies. Japan, Italy and Germany. We killed enough Germans, Italians, and Japanese to make them see the error in their ways. (In Japan's case you Nuked them.. twice)

Hi IQ people who got the message.

Which is not the case in the Middle East.

[BartSimpson]

llama66 llama66:

I always thought a good way to deal with Terrorists would be to make them the harbingers of death. Find out what village they hide in, and kill everyone in that village... then, when they went to the next village, kill them too, eventually these villages would stop harboring these terrorists, purely out of self preservation... The terrorists would be engaged by their own supporters. It would force the terrorists out into the wilds where spy satellites would be able to identify these camps for drones to action.

"When they go to ground give them no ground to go to."

llama66 llama66:

But also go after the financiers, imams, the saudi backers, and anyone else who advocates jihad against the west.