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CKA Uber
CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:54 pm
 


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Thanos Thanos:
Keep in mind I don't even care all that much about government debt, at least as long as it's contained under a certain percentage of GDP. I don't ever want to see a repeat of the 1990's, where the governments were acting like they were in some insane competition to reduce debt and didn't care in the slightest who was getting hurt and how much infrastructure ended up suffering due to the cut-backs. The government isn't a business, nor is it a nutty old guy with a hundred jars of pennies buried in the back yard. And it shouldn't ever be expected to behave the same way as an individual would with their own rinky-dink personal savings account at the bank. So, yes, control debt as much as logically possible but, no, the government should never have a unused surplus either. Not with the kinds of responsibilities it has on it.


I think that is an incredibly short sighted opinion on your part. Billions of dollars get wasted on interest payments on that debt every year. Billions that should be going towards increasing our military capacity, building more hospitals and paying for more doctors & nurses, developing our freeway system, developing HSR networks, funding a space program, reducing income taxes, etc. If we can suffer the pain and pay our debt down now, we will reap the rewards later.


It's a shell game, find the magic debt dollars! We spent the better part of fifteen years fighting debt and crowing about eliminating deficit. All it did was make people who genuinely needed help suffer more than they already were and put infrastructure behind the eight-ball from one end of the country to the other. It's not something I want to ever see repeated again in my lifetime, especially not with the senseless willy-nilly way the spending cuts were done.

Lemmy could probably back me up on this but this concept that all government spending is no different than tossing money away is just ridiculous. Like it or not the governments are the biggest drivers of the economy, and that has nothing to do with subsidies to dying industries. Just on contract work alone government spending creates a cycle of employment and payroll taxes that see money going back into national revenue at the same time it's being spent. No one should ever forgive the boondoggles and there should be a lot more oversight on the political pet projects that can turn disastrous. You just can't take the government out of the equation though. They've been doing that for the last four years in Kansas under Tea Party economics and the place is now a basket case. Private business did not step up to fill the hole left by the government and, as proven everywhere it's ever tried, shifting from public to private costs the taxpayers far more than leaving a system all-government ever does.


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CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Vancouver Canucks


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:50 pm
 


Believe me, I understand the governments role in the economic system. The money doesn't just evaporate when it is spent on things that create middle and upper class jobs. The only reason I had a job this year was because of government infrastructure spending meant that people needed the concrete that the company I work for supplies.

My problem is the interest payments. As far as I am concerned, that is money that is evaporating. Whether it's going to a bank or a bond holder, all it is doing is padding someone's portfolio. Padded portfolios don't really propel the economy as well as we would like.


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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:49 pm
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
I can only guess what your answer would be, "government should be more involved in the economy".

Why would that be your guess? I'm a libertarian and an economics professor. Why would you presume that?

nutsy nutsy:
Let's pick and choose the winners of today and stifle innovation and competition and the grand kids will pay for it. Sounds like a great plan for long term success.

What are you talking about any more? Do you even know?


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CKA Uber
CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:54 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
I don't ever want to see a repeat of the 1990's, where the governments were acting like they were in some insane competition to reduce debt and didn't care in the slightest who was getting hurt and how much infrastructure ended up suffering due to the cut-backs.



And that only happened because the governments before were engaged in an orgy of spending trying to buy more votes.


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

My problem is the interest payments. As far as I am concerned, that is money that is evaporating. Whether it's going to a bank or a bond holder, all it is doing is padding someone's portfolio. Padded portfolios don't really propel the economy as well as we would like.


True, everyone seems to forget the times when 25% of our taxes was going just to pay the interest on the debt.

Everything is fine now.. until interest rates start to rise. Then, look out.


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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:33 am
 


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Thanos Thanos:
Keep in mind I don't even care all that much about government debt, at least as long as it's contained under a certain percentage of GDP. I don't ever want to see a repeat of the 1990's, where the governments were acting like they were in some insane competition to reduce debt and didn't care in the slightest who was getting hurt and how much infrastructure ended up suffering due to the cut-backs. The government isn't a business, nor is it a nutty old guy with a hundred jars of pennies buried in the back yard. And it shouldn't ever be expected to behave the same way as an individual would with their own rinky-dink personal savings account at the bank. So, yes, control debt as much as logically possible but, no, the government should never have a unused surplus either. Not with the kinds of responsibilities it has on it.


I think that is an incredibly short sighted opinion on your part. Billions of dollars get wasted on interest payments on that debt every year. Billions that should be going towards increasing our military capacity, building more hospitals and paying for more doctors & nurses, developing our freeway system, developing HSR networks, funding a space program, reducing income taxes, etc. If we can suffer the pain and pay our debt down now, we will reap the rewards later.


I agree we should keep debt low, but almost nobody carries debt.

And while I support some of the things you want to spend money on, not all of them are realistic (like HSR or a space program) for our country.

Going into debt to build highways, hospitals, and other infrastructure pays long term dividends that far exceed interest payments. 100 years ago, only the wealthiest could afford a cross country trip to see our wonderful country, but today because of infrastructure investments, most Canadians can afford to do it at least once in their lives. We've also come a long way in the health care arena, where until the 1960s, people lived in fear of getting sick (just like they do south of the border).

Some debt isn't a bad thing, as long as it's spent wisely. But borrowing to pay for operating costs (as the Alberta NDP are) is very bad fiscal planning.


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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:06 pm
 


My old lady's worked 40 hours a week or more for over 8 years at her current job.
She's in one of those two-tiered contracts, so she will always make less than anyone employed since the 90s. She will never get "full-time" status and even those lesser benefits as no posts have been listed as full-time in all those years.
Lower wages
Lesser benefits
Forever.

A reality these days. Only changes to labour codes can change things and that won't happen. Too "anti-business"


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