[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Basically government officials like cabinet member, deputy ministers and independent officers of the legislative assembly will be getting luxury, high powered gas-guzzlers to do something (we're not sure what), but no worries...somewhere down the road there's a "report" coming.

To travel to their constituency offices, now that the provincial aircraft fleet was sold off. MLAs were running up too much of a bill chartering aircraft, so a study was done that showed paying for vehicles rather than reimbursing mileage was cheaper than chartering small planes. Thanks Redford!

Ministers and DMs get SUVs because their RCMP escorts request that. MLAs get econoboxes, if they need to travel to their home offices during sessions. Otherwise they ride the bus like everyone else.

That's complete bull shit, prove me fucking wrong. You must hang off of one of Rachel's nipples.

[N_Fiddledog]

It does seem odd that Beave's CBC article didn't mention any of those explanations under their list of excuses, and they say Notley is still waiting for a report, not that she has one.

The policy was around under the old regime but today "The government faces a record $10.9 billion deficit this year" and there's still that contradiction of why does a deputy minister need a 2017 Ford escape 4wd like this one,



while Notley tells Albertans to save on their carbon usage by driving smaller vehicles or take the bus.

You'll have to explain to us why provincial Deputy Ministers need to travel around with security Doc. Aren't they like department heads. The boss bureaucrat in the office right. They need personal security? Why?

Or how about these guys:

$1:

Twenty-three other officials are also entitled to vehicles, including the ethics commissioner, chairman of the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission, the ombudsman, the auditor general and the child and youth advocate..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3781414

Doc appears to have these bureaucrats traveling up and down the length of Alberta all day in stuff like 4 wheel drive Escapes, being tailed by security to save them money from all those Westjet bills they might otherwise rack up.

The CBC link above doesn't appear to know about any of that. They seem to think the policy of gifting a government administrator something like this:



is a way to save money. " The claim is it's cheaper than paying mileage on personal vehicles. Also there's an idea it's important for road safety, when and if they should venture out into an Albertan winter. Beave's previous CBC article told us Rachel is waiting for a report to show this.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Basically government officials like cabinet member, deputy ministers and independent officers of the legislative assembly will be getting luxury, high powered gas-guzzlers to do something (we're not sure what), but no worries...somewhere down the road there's a "report" coming.

To travel to their constituency offices, now that the provincial aircraft fleet was sold off. MLAs were running up too much of a bill chartering aircraft, so a study was done that showed paying for vehicles rather than reimbursing mileage was cheaper than chartering small planes. Thanks Redford!

Ministers and DMs get SUVs because their RCMP escorts request that. MLAs get econoboxes, if they need to travel to their home offices during sessions. Otherwise they ride the bus like everyone else.

To my knowledge, the only one with permanent bodyguards (provided by the Sheriffs, not RCMP) is the Premier. During my time as a contactor, I never saw a Minister with bodyguards, although I'm sure they could request protection if they felt they needed it.

I don't have a problem with the government buying/leasing SUVs for Ministers, but I don't think they need luxury SUVs like the former head of the PAB (who was a long time NDP supporter BTW) got this year:



**Yes, I know it's the Rebel, but even pseudo-journalists actually get it right once and awhile!

Why not get the smaller SUVs like Ford Escapes or something - they'll still have AWD and a higher profile, while being more fuel efficient.

A Ford Escape has a 10.6/8.0 litres/100 KM fuel economy, compared to the QX50 at 13.7/9.7 litres/100 KM. Don't like Ford, then try a Cherokee, which comes in at 11.0/7.8 litres/100 KM. And so on...

After all, that was the solution presented to Albertans by Notley - reduce the size of your vehicle to save on the carbon tax.

For the NDP not to take their own advice is hypocritical in my books.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

That's complete bull shit, prove me fucking wrong. You must hang off of one of Rachel's nipples.

I prove you wrong all the time. What did you have in mind this time?

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Basically government officials like cabinet member, deputy ministers and independent officers of the legislative assembly will be getting luxury, high powered gas-guzzlers to do something (we're not sure what), but no worries...somewhere down the road there's a "report" coming.

To travel to their constituency offices, now that the provincial aircraft fleet was sold off. MLAs were running up too much of a bill chartering aircraft, so a study was done that showed paying for vehicles rather than reimbursing mileage was cheaper than chartering small planes. Thanks Redford!

Ministers and DMs get SUVs because their RCMP escorts request that. MLAs get econoboxes, if they need to travel to their home offices during sessions. Otherwise they ride the bus like everyone else.

To my knowledge, the only one with permanent bodyguards (provided by the Sheriffs, not RCMP) is the Premier. During my time as a contactor, I never saw a Minister with bodyguards, although I'm sure they could request protection if they felt they needed it.

I don't have a problem with the government buying/leasing SUVs for Ministers, but I don't think they need luxury SUVs like the former head of the PAB (who was a long time NDP supporter BTW) got this year:

**Yes, I know it's the Rebel, but even pseudo-journalists actually get it right once and awhile!

Why not get the smaller SUVs like Ford Escapes or something - they'll still have AWD and a higher profile, while being more fuel efficient.

A Ford Escape has a 10.6/8.0 litres/100 KM fuel economy, compared to the QX50 at 13.7/9.7 litres/100 KM. Don't like Ford, then try a Cherokee, which comes in at 11.0/7.8 litres/100 KM. And so on...

After all, that was the solution presented to Albertans by Notley - reduce the size of your vehicle to save on the carbon tax.

For the NDP not to take their own advice is hypocritical in my books.

I just know what my boss told me the Deputy Minister told him.

Not every MLA will get a car. There will be a pool of vehicles that can be signed out, not equal to the number of MLAs. When the house is in session, and if they need to sign one out, they can. While the house is not in session, they are responsible for their own transport to and from the Legislature.

Just like they always have been. The only difference is that they get Government Ford Focus Or Honda Civic instead of a Government plane ride.

And no one has Luxury SUVs. The ones I see most around the Leg are Chev Tahoes, or Ford Explorers. Just the plain Jane models of those vehicles too, not the XLTs or Eddie Bauer versions.

[DrCaleb]

$1:

Service Alberta Minister Stephanie McLean said ministers and deputy ministers get to use government vehicles because they spend a lot of time driving for their jobs. Using their own private vehicles would not save money, she argued.

"Having crunched the numbers, it's equivalent or better to make use of the fleet vehicle," McLean said.

$1:

The NDP is continuing a vehicle-provision policy from the previous Progressive Conservative government that goes back to at least 1988, according to documents obtained from the legislative assembly library.

According to Service Alberta, buying vehicles is 35 to 40 per cent cheaper than leasing. The government issues requests for proposals for vehicle purchases with the governments of British Columbia and Saskatchewan. Service Alberta spokeswoman Tina Faiz said this can save up to $12,000 a vehicle.

The government has 73 vehicles in the executive fleet. Seven are currently unassigned.

But some current cabinet ministers were assigned 2009, 2010 and 2011 vehicles. Government media officer John Archer said they asked for these older vehicles and have not requested newer replacements.

Wildrose leader gets vehicle

Cabinet ministers and deputy ministers aren't the only ones who get government vehicles.

Twenty-three other officials are also entitled to vehicles, including the ethics commissioner, chairman of the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission, the ombudsman, the auditor general and the child and youth advocate..

Speaker Bob Wanner, deputy Speaker Debbie Jabbour. deputy chair of committees Heather Sweet and Wildrose Opposition Leader Brian Jean also use vehicles they lease from the government.

. . .

Both Jean and interim PC leader Ric McIver are entitled to vehicles as members of opposition parties with four or more MLAs in the legislature. McIver told CBC News he chooses to use his own vehicle for government business but claims mileage.

$1:

Premier's executive protection:

2010 Chrysler 300C
Five 2012 Buick Enclaves
2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Two 2015 Chevrolet Suburban

Lieutenant Governor's Executive Protection

2011 Lincoln Towncar
2016 Lincoln Navigator

Speaker

2012 Subaru Outback

Deputy Speaker

2016 GMC Acadia

Leader of Official Opposition

2015 Buick Enclave

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3781414

[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

That's complete bull shit, prove me fucking wrong. You must hang off of one of Rachel's nipples.

I prove you wrong all the time. What did you have in mind this time?

your just repeating what your boss told you ??? fuck off

"the PC's used the Jet like a school bus to get everyone home for the weekend." ???

[Thanos]

Wondering if Redford hadn't disgraced the use of the government planes so much with her abuse of the privilege that Manmeet Bhullar might not have died. He could have taken a safer plane home to Calgary instead of sticking his neck out to help a motorist in distress on the QE2 in the middle of a storm.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

That's complete bull shit, prove me fucking wrong. You must hang off of one of Rachel's nipples.

I prove you wrong all the time. What did you have in mind this time?

your just repeating what your boss told you ??? fuck off

"the PC's used the Jet like a school bus to get everyone home for the weekend." ???

I like it when you miss the big details even more than when you miss the little ones. As you are so fond of misrepresenting, I work at Treasury Board and Finance. I've actually held the log books for the former aircraft fleet in my hot little larger than average hands.

Firstly, they were prop planes. Beechcraft King Air 350's if you want to look them up for future reference. We also lost $5 millon on their sale, so there is that boondoggle.

And yes, the aircraft were used as personal transport devices by everyone since Ralph Klein.

$1:

In May 2004, then-premier Ralph Klein was criticized by the Liberals for a trip he had taken to Nova Scotia. A government plane dropped him off at an exclusive golf resort before he went to the premiers’ conference in Halifax. Klein maintained the pit stop was for networking, but admitted it was also partly for a vacation.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1498638/alber ... aft-fleet/

$1:

In 2005, the Air Transportation Service fleet became an issue when it was revealed that then-premier Ralph Klein was often using the planes to fly to Calgary alone, then sending them back empty to Edmonton.

After that controversy, use of the aircraft was to be more tightly regulated. For instance, no flights by MLA’s spouses or family members were allowed unless the politician was flying to a government event at which a spouse or guest was required.

But it’s obvious nothing has changed. If anything, abuse of the fleet has grown worse.

. . .

Horner took his wife on 23 flights. His office excuses this by claiming 22 of these were really just 11 return flights.

His flunkies try to further explain away their boss’s use of the planes by saying two of the return flights were to memorial services for deceased former premiers (Klein and Lougheed). Three more were for events to which both the FinMin and his wife were invited (a use permitted by the post-2005 rules).

That leaves six return flights by Horner’s wife unexplained.

. . .

The underlying problem with the government planes is not whether they are used according to the government’s own rules, but rather the message their existence sends that cabinet minister and MLAs are not like you and me.

They’re special. They’re more important. They can’t stand in security lines and hang out in departure lounges waiting for their flights like the rest of us riffraff. They deserve special treatment.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/03/f ... serve-them

But, hey, it's only bad when NDP Carbon Tax bla bla bla.

Is that the best you've got, or do you want to be proven wrong on other things?

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

Wondering if Redford hadn't disgraced the use of the government planes so much with her abuse of the privilege that Manmeet Bhullar might not have died. He could have taken a safer plane home to Calgary instead of sticking his neck out to help a motorist in distress on the QE2 in the middle of a storm.

The irony is that maintaining a fleet of aircraft would probably be cheaper than a fleet of cars too. If they only used them according to the rules.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

To travel to their constituency offices, now that the provincial aircraft fleet was sold off. MLAs were running up too much of a bill chartering aircraft, so a study was done that showed paying for vehicles rather than reimbursing mileage was cheaper than chartering small planes. Thanks Redford!

Ministers and DMs get SUVs because their RCMP escorts request that. MLAs get econoboxes, if they need to travel to their home offices during sessions. Otherwise they ride the bus like everyone else.

To my knowledge, the only one with permanent bodyguards (provided by the Sheriffs, not RCMP) is the Premier. During my time as a contactor, I never saw a Minister with bodyguards, although I'm sure they could request protection if they felt they needed it.

I don't have a problem with the government buying/leasing SUVs for Ministers, but I don't think they need luxury SUVs like the former head of the PAB (who was a long time NDP supporter BTW) got this year:

**Yes, I know it's the Rebel, but even pseudo-journalists actually get it right once and awhile!

Why not get the smaller SUVs like Ford Escapes or something - they'll still have AWD and a higher profile, while being more fuel efficient.

A Ford Escape has a 10.6/8.0 litres/100 KM fuel economy, compared to the QX50 at 13.7/9.7 litres/100 KM. Don't like Ford, then try a Cherokee, which comes in at 11.0/7.8 litres/100 KM. And so on...

After all, that was the solution presented to Albertans by Notley - reduce the size of your vehicle to save on the carbon tax.

For the NDP not to take their own advice is hypocritical in my books.

I just know what my boss told me the Deputy Minister told him.

Not every MLA will get a car. There will be a pool of vehicles that can be signed out, not equal to the number of MLAs. When the house is in session, and if they need to sign one out, they can. While the house is not in session, they are responsible for their own transport to and from the Legislature.

Just like they always have been. The only difference is that they get Government Ford Focus Or Honda Civic instead of a Government plane ride.

And no one has Luxury SUVs. The ones I see most around the Leg are Chev Tahoes, or Ford Explorers. Just the plain Jane models of those vehicles too, not the XLTs or Eddie Bauer versions.

Well as the Rebel's FOIP request showed, the director of PAB got an Infinti QX-50 - and IIRC, Infinti is Nissan's luxury brand. It may be a cheaper luxury SUV, but it's still a luxury SUV in the eyes of most Albertans.

As I said, I don't have a problem with the vehicles per se, I just think they should be buying smaller SUVs, and certainly not ones from luxury brands such as Audi, Acura, Infinti (as noted in your link). Many of the vehicles listed are sensible, including Cherokees, Escape, Muranos, etc. but if you want to take the high road, you actually have to drive it and not buy ANY luxury brand vehicles IMHO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3781414

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well as the Rebel's FOIP request showed, the director of PAB got an Infinti QX-50 - and IIRC, Infinti is Nissan's luxury brand. It may be a cheaper luxury SUV, but it's still a luxury SUV in the eyes of most Albertans.

As I said, I don't have a problem with the vehicles per se, I just think they should be buying smaller SUVs, and certainly not ones from luxury brands such as Audi, Acura, Infinti (as noted in your link). Many of the vehicles listed are sensible, including Cherokees, Escape, Muranos, etc. but if you want to take the high road, you actually have to drive it and not buy ANY luxury brand vehicles IMHO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3781414

To me, Infinity and Acura are just rebadged Nissans and Toyotas. Only in North America do those brands exist, those vehicles are sold around the world under their parent company badge. I don't see Nissan or Toyota as a hign end brand, any more than Cadillac or Lincon - although those are pretty nice vehicles. 'Luxury' to me would be Audi, Porsche, Range Rover . . . and I only see one Audi on that list. And entry level one at that. Like driving a Mercedes B class SUV. Sure, it's got a fancy badge, but the Nissan is probably nicer.

But that's beside the yet another shell game that the Sun is playing here.

$1:

But while government officials have their vehicles and gas paid for, other Albertans will be forced to pay the carbon tax. The average Albertan family of four will shell out $888 in 2018 on gas taxes alone

The Carbon tax will be paid by the producer, and passed on to the public at the pump. The Government will still pay it at the pump like everyone else. But the Sun likes to fire up the rhetoric to generate the clicks on it's website. They bitched about the provincial air fleet, and now that it was sold off for half price, they bitch about the replacement for the air fleet. If MLAs and Ministers stopped attending public meetings or servicing their constituencies to save fuel, they'd bitch about that too.

[Lemmy]

The thing about the article that's frustrating is the last line of it:

$1:

Ultimately, the government should scrap the carbon tax. But at the very least, they should try walking the walk.

You don't scrap a necessary program because of some "workoutable" bugs. The solution is a simple one: don't give government employees company vehicles, period. They should be able to write off expenses, such as use of a personal vehicle, just like any private sector employee or executive. But get rid of all government vehicles and TWO double standards disappear.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

The solution is a simple one: don't give government employees company vehicles, period. They should be able to write off expenses, such as use of a personal vehicle, just like any private sector employee or executive. But get rid of all government vehicles and TWO double standards disappear.

As I posted earlier, the results of a Government study showed it was cheaper to maintain a fleet of vehicles than it was to reimburse MLAs mileage and expenses to use their own.

I agree that most MLAs and even Deputy Ministers shouldn't have the option of a government vehicle, but since they do the cheapest option should be first.

[Lemmy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

As I posted earlier, the results of a Government study showed it was cheaper to maintain a fleet of vehicles than it was to reimburse MLAs mileage and expenses to use their own. I agree that most MLAs and even Deputy Ministers shouldn't have the option of a government vehicle, but since they do the cheapest option should be first.

It's only that way because the per-km mileage allowance is too high.