[DrCaleb]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Thanos Thanos:

If I ever win the lottery I'm just not putting my money in a bank in the Cayman Islands. I'm also moving there permanently just to get away once and for all from all of these fucking idiots and grifters. It's too frustrating to put up with for much longer.

God no, don't go there! You'd never be able to stand the racism.

2Cdo has done the recon, follow his recommendations.

Thanks for the plug.

I always appreciate the best information available. When I decide to run away from home, that's where I'm going to go. Or Turks and Caicos. hehe.

[2Cdo]

I still haven't made up my mind where I want to retire at. I see good and bad in every country in the Caribbean. The wife will probably make my mind up for me.

[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I spoke to a friend in the Department of Energy yesterday. The clause was news to them, and he's in the section dealing directly with contract management.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Glad I could amuse. I assume then that you believe a government emerges from the 'womb' fully formed and ready to perform as well as it's predecessor? How naive!

This is an enlightening little bit of video from the last Leaders Debate
https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/758334383510007808

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I count 6 Canadian, and 11 North American cities that have lower power prices.

And how many cities are there in NA? Your the one with the government job, you've got the time to count that up, I got other shit to do.

Only 16 cities paying less? Like I said some of cheapest electricity in NA

[peck420]

I wonder what would happen if large numbers of consumers became a large number of micro generators?

I have just been getting happier and happier, as I generate more and more of my own utility needs. I will never be able to satisfy my water needs, but I am damn close to covering my electrical, and next year I am gonna see about covering some of my gas with a a small biogas system.

I understand that not everybody has the luxury of doing this, but I do sincerely wonder what would happen to energy markets if those of us that can, did.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I spoke to a friend in the Department of Energy yesterday. The clause was news to them, and he's in the section dealing directly with contract management.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Glad I could amuse. I assume then that you believe a government emerges from the 'womb' fully formed and ready to perform as well as it's predecessor? How naive!

This is an enlightening little bit of video from the last Leaders Debate
https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/758334383510007808

Video? Is it about that Enron clause? I don't recall that in the leaders debate.

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I count 6 Canadian, and 11 North American cities that have lower power prices.

And how many cities are there in NA? Your the one with the government job, you've got the time to count that up, I got other shit to do.

Only 16 cities paying less? Like I said some of cheapest electricity in NA

So, it takes you . . how long to count to 11? And Alberta has average to above average prices for electricity. Hardly the cheapest.

And for the millionth time, I don't work for the government. More of that cognitively biased bad information you keep spewing.

[Canadian_Mind]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But there is a small silver lining. It's those long term power contracts that fund the power stations and keep them running. If everyone pulls their contracts, then it will be easier to shut down the old coal fired plants in the next couple years due to lack of funding.

Which is why i think this was intentional and the clause was no surprise at all. There are probably people in the know who were waiting for this and already had their lawyers prepped for the legal battle to make the $2 billion an addition to our power bills and not an additional government expense.

[DrCaleb]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But there is a small silver lining. It's those long term power contracts that fund the power stations and keep them running. If everyone pulls their contracts, then it will be easier to shut down the old coal fired plants in the next couple years due to lack of funding.

Which is why i think this was intentional and the clause was no surprise at all. There are probably people in the know who were waiting for this and already had their lawyers prepped for the legal battle to make the $2 billion an addition to our power bills and not an additional government expense.

I'd give the benefit of the doubt, since the clause was a surprise to many. Even the people who write the contracts.

But yea, I always knew business was never going to just reduce their profits without passing that cost on to the consumer. Even if the power company was publicly owned!

Progress has it's price. We're just going to have to suck it up and pay the extra $6 or $10.

[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I spoke to a friend in the Department of Energy yesterday. The clause was news to them, and he's in the section dealing directly with contract management.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Glad I could amuse. I assume then that you believe a government emerges from the 'womb' fully formed and ready to perform as well as it's predecessor? How naive!

This is an enlightening little bit of video from the last Leaders Debate
https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/758334383510007808

Video? Is it about that Enron clause? I don't recall that in the leaders debate.

Notely doesn't recall that in the leaders debate either, don't be afraid to click on that link, the video won't bite ya.

[rickc]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I still haven't made up my mind where I want to retire at. I see good and bad in every country in the Caribbean. The wife will probably make my mind up for me.

Not to derail the thread, but which place is your favorite so far?

[2Cdo]

rickc rickc:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I still haven't made up my mind where I want to retire at. I see good and bad in every country in the Caribbean. The wife will probably make my mind up for me.

Not to derail the thread, but which place is your favorite so far?

Cozumel and Curacao in a dead heat.

[rickc]

Sounds good! I usually go to the Dominican Republic in the winter, and Aruba in the summer. I also love the Caribbean and can't wait to retire there somewhere. A bad day fishing beats a good day at work anytime.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

This is an enlightening little bit of video from the last Leaders Debate
https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/758334383510007808

Video? Is it about that Enron clause? I don't recall that in the leaders debate.

Notely doesn't recall that in the leaders debate either, don't be afraid to click on that link, the video won't bite ya.

I tried, but there are only still images. No video. I don't allow some sites to run scripts or Adobe Flash, and twitter is one of them. It tries to gather too much information from me.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Notely doesn't recall that in the leaders debate either, don't be afraid to click on that link, the video won't bite ya.

I tried, but there are only still images. No video. I don't allow some sites to run scripts or Adobe Flash, and twitter is one of them. It tries to gather too much information from me.

Watched the video and for once, the Rebel is actually telling the truth (kind of like a broken clock, it's right twice a day).

In it, Prentice warns Notley that there will be billions in penalties from shutting coal plants early, to which she replies that the PCs didn't care about the environment and shutting them down will create social license.

So she was informed there would be some sort of penalties, but was not specifically told about the Enron clause.

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Notely doesn't recall that in the leaders debate either, don't be afraid to click on that link, the video won't bite ya.

I tried, but there are only still images. No video. I don't allow some sites to run scripts or Adobe Flash, and twitter is one of them. It tries to gather too much information from me.

Watched the video and for once, the Rebel is actually telling the truth (kind of like a broken clock, it's right twice a day).

In it, Prentice warns Notley that there will be billions in penalties from shutting coal plants early, to which she replies that the PCs didn't care about the environment and shutting them down will create social license.

So she was informed there would be some sort of penalties, but was not specifically told about the Enron clause.

So, it's likely that Prentice knew about the clause, but the paper trail might have been lost when the PCs shredded everything on leaving office. Tough to make decisions based on secrets that have been lost or hidden. But like C_M said, it's likely that they did know that the clauses were in the contracts, and expected companies to drop their power contracts, making way for the closure of coal plants by the 2020 deadline.

I still don't see how we can blame the NDP because of things they couldn't know about. And, it's not like anyone thought that expanding a tax wouldn't have financial consequences. It's just whether we can live with that tax increase, like we live with increases to alcohol, tobacco and income taxes.

[Thanos]

Bump. Hey, turns out the Dippers are right after all, it was a bunch of private e-mails with no public (or apparently even ministerial) consultation at all that changed the wording at the very last minute before the deregulation changes took effect. Just good ol' boys doing the good ol' reach-around as usual. LOL.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.3711177

$1:

According to the documents provided by the government on July 27, 2000, five days before the clauses were going to take effect there was an email exchange between an Enron lobbyist and the bureaucrat leading the transition. Robert Hemstock, Enron's Canadian head of government relations, contacted Larry Charach, the head of electricity for Alberta Department of Resource Development (ADRD).

During the email exchange, the clause in place, according to the documents, stated that in order for energy companies to opt out of PPAs they had to prove that the operation was unprofitable solely due to a government action.

Hemstock then wrote Charach, wanting an amendment to the clause that would allow a PPA buyer to transfer its obligations should a company be unprofitable regardless of government action.

On July 28, 2000, one day after the email and four days before the PPAs went to auction, the Alberta government claims, an ADRD document was filed requesting this change.

On Aug. 1, 2000 the day before the PPA auction, the change went into effect.

In an email sent from Robert Hemstock to Aleck Dadson, the senior director for Enron at the time, he explains how proud he is of the deal.

"In particular, I thought to write this note to you because I am proud of the comment I received from Larry Charach this evening during our final conversation in relation to the issues described below," writes Hemstock.

"Larry said to me that his decision to take steps to address Enron's concerns at this late date was based in large part on our relationship and the trust that he has developed in me as a result of having worked with me for some time."

Me and the rest of thee seem way too honest for our own good. Wish I'd gone to the school where they teach you how to get away clean with bulging bank accounts from cooking up scams like this. How will our allies ever trust us again?