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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:03 am
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
The line between communism and capitalism is getting thinner and thinner.


The place between capitalism and communism is the economic model called 'fascism' in which government controls private industry and takes a share of the profits after taxes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:18 am
 


peck420 peck420:
Investment...

Initial: $500,000

Estimated 34 full time positions (I am intentionally ignoring the part times).

Average full time wage in Manitoba: $24.72/hr
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/labr69h-eng.htm

Now, since that is just estimations, lets hedge the bets a bit. I am going to assume the a 35 hour work week at 2/3rds the average rate...so $16.48/hr.
Federal
Net Earnings (per employee): $29,993.60
Federal Taxes per year (individual): $4,499.04

Federal Taxes per year (total): $152,967.36

6.54 years for 100% ROI if 100% of investment is from the Federal government. Not bad.

Provincial
Net Earnings (per employee): $29,993.60
Provincial Taxes per year (individual): $3,239.31

Provincial Taxes per year (total): $110,136.54

9.08 years for 100% ROI if 100% of investment is from the Provincial government. Still not terrible.

ROI = (Gain from Investment - Cost of Investment)/Cost of Investment


Regardless of so-called returns and very broad assumptions you make. Why Maple Leafs food and not a competitor? Why this industry? How could we possibly obtain full disclosure of political affiliations, donations, friendships behind the scenes between politicians/parties and stakeholders?

This is just part of the problem. Great enough indeed on their own, not even all encompassing when dealing with such activities. It's why when I emailed Wynne about the large grant given to MLSE for their NBA All-Star hosting, they could only send me back a standard copy and paste response about the great things happening in the Ontario economy. They know it is nearly impossible to justify giving a billion dollar company free money. Especially when we are seeing vital economic challenges.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:26 am
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
Regardless of so-called returns and very broad assumptions you make. Why Maple Leafs food and not a competitor? Why this industry? How could we possibly obtain full disclosure of political affiliations, donations, friendships behind the scenes between politicians/parties and stakeholders?

Learn to read better. From the original source:
$1:
The money is one part of a total of $176 million both governments are investing in Manitoba under a five-year policy framework, the news release states.

Sounds like a lot of others are getting some help as well.
$1:
This is just part of the problem. Great enough indeed on their own, not even all encompassing when dealing with such activities. It's why when I emailed Wynne about the large grant given to MLSE for their NBA All-Star hosting, they could only send me back a standard copy and paste response about the great things happening in the Ontario economy. They know it is nearly impossible to justify giving a billion dollar company free money. Especially when we are seeing vital economic challenges.

No, the problem is that individuals get cranky when the money is not put into their pockets. That's about it.

Ontario wouldn't have gotten a fraction of the exposure they did, for $500,000 placed directly into ad campaigns vs getting the NBA's all star game.

Again, another investment with an expected return. Toronto, and Ontario, now exist in the minds of many that it did not before.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:40 am
 


[/quote]
No, the problem is that individuals get cranky when the money is not put into their pockets. That's about it.

Ontario wouldn't have gotten a fraction of the exposure they did, for $500,000 placed directly into ad campaigns vs getting the NBA's all star game.

Again, another investment with an expected return. Toronto, and Ontario, now exist in the minds of many that it did not before.[/quote]


I don't want the money in my pocket, I want the money kept in the coffers and/or used to pay down our debt which is a milestone around our necks and many generations going forward.

Furthermore, this "goodwill" you believe Toronto and Ontario gets from the all-star game is a red herring argument. Toronto already won the all-star game. The money given to a large corporation that has a near sports monopoly in Canada was nothing more than theft. If they had been given money, no money, or had announced a special "all-star" tax (don't laugh, this is Ontario), MLSE was going to happily host the all-star game and profit handsomely for it.

Capitalism has been replaced with cronyism and future generations are going to pay a very heavy price for this.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:07 am
 


andyt andyt:
But you're not trolling. It's just natural to throw insults at Shocked out of the blue, right? I don't think I've ever seen him insult anybody.

Read what Caleb wrote. How does shocked's income factor into this? You're just a bully that wants to go after people for anything. If shocked makes one of his cornspiracy posts, fine if you feel the need to deride him for it. (Doesn't it get old tho?) Seems you're still stuck in high school. Gang up and go after people for anything.

And Caleb, not a miscomparison on my part at all. It's 2CDo who brought up personal income in regard to this topic. Apparently he is so rich he wouldn't deem 500k a big deal. Must be nice.

Holy fuck. This post confirms that you're even dumber than I thought, which is really saying something. The only reason you acted upset is because I posted it and not one of your buddies.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:08 am
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
I don't want the money in my pocket, I want the money kept in the coffers and/or used to pay down our debt which is a milestone around our necks and many generations going forward.

Getting millions of dollars of advertising for $500,000 will benefit Ontario's overall debt significantly.
$1:
Furthermore, this "goodwill" you believe Toronto and Ontario gets from the all-star game is a red herring argument. Toronto already won the all-star game. The money given to a large corporation that has a near sports monopoly in Canada was nothing more than theft. If they had been given money, no money, or had announced a special "all-star" tax (don't laugh, this is Ontario), MLSE was going to happily host the all-star game and profit handsomely for it.

I didn't even use the term 'good-will'. That would imply that it was free. It wasn't. Ontario paid money to MLSE to piggy back Ontario Tourism advertising onto the NBA all star game. They just saved Ontario millions in advertising costs.
$1:
Capitalism has been replaced with cronyism and future generations are going to pay a very heavy price for this.

Only if we force them to read your posts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:43 am
 


peck420 peck420:
shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
I don't want the money in my pocket, I want the money kept in the coffers and/or used to pay down our debt which is a milestone around our necks and many generations going forward.

Getting millions of dollars of advertising for $500,000 will benefit Ontario's overall debt significantly.
$1:
Furthermore, this "goodwill" you believe Toronto and Ontario gets from the all-star game is a red herring argument. Toronto already won the all-star game. The money given to a large corporation that has a near sports monopoly in Canada was nothing more than theft. If they had been given money, no money, or had announced a special "all-star" tax (don't laugh, this is Ontario), MLSE was going to happily host the all-star game and profit handsomely for it.

I didn't even use the term 'good-will'. That would imply that it was free. It wasn't. Ontario paid money to MLSE to piggy back Ontario Tourism advertising onto the NBA all star game. They just saved Ontario millions in advertising costs.
$1:
Capitalism has been replaced with cronyism and future generations are going to pay a very heavy price for this.

Only if we force them to read your posts.


The $350B debt will go away on it's own. Got it. Nothing to see here, everything is A-ok.

Again, this is business 101. MLSE tells Ontario, "hey, we are going to bid on the NBA all-star game, when we obtain it, we will drive millions into the economy, you will get free advertising (as if noone knows about the city of Toronto) so a nice little handout for us, on top of our increase ticket prices and concessions, would be a great gesture for our hard work!".

If I am Premier; and any other free market Conservative economist, I tell MLSE, "We aren't running your business for you, and you aren't dictating how we use taxpayers funds. Bid on the all-star game or don't, we aren't in the sports business". Instead, Wynne tosses money around as if it grows on trees, and based on the horrendous management of this province, and the larger nation, too many believe this to be fact. Once again, do we know about the history of MLSE political donations or private discussions? Since none of us do, let's assume that any gifts such as this have to be scrutinized with skepticism.

MLSE estimated over $100M in business activity for the all-star game. Does this even include their own revenues realized? Who knows. What we do know is that it is a guesstimate and almost certainly overstated for the purpose of getting their handout. Disgusting to have some intervention in the free market, again, this among other activities will be our economic and social undoing.

Bloomberg wrote a great article about the 2015 NBA game, which was held in New York:

Was NBA All-Star Weekend a Financial Winner?

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... al-winner-

Recent history shows that advance estimates tend to be wildly overstated. In 2010, the NBA All-Star Game held at the Dallas Cowboys stadium was projected to generate $268.5 million, including $152 million in direct spending by out-of-towners. Yet a review of tax receipts revealed that revenue in Dallas-area hospitality increased only slightly -- and for some areas actually decreased -- from the same month of the previous year. David DuBois, president of the Fort Worth Convention & Visitors Bureau, told the Dallas News that in his city, "the impact was in the tens of thousands of dollars instead of the estimated $6.56 million."

Read the full article to understand the point I am making, above and beyond the act that I am against corporate handouts from taxpayers. Taxpayers and concerned, patriotic citizens are sick and tired of being fleeced at every turn while those benefiting in one way or another try and paint it as a great deal.


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