[Lemmy]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

While I'm not sympathetic to this law, what about a Jewish bakery being asked to decorate a cake with swastikas?

Good point.

Nobody and I mean nobody should have the right to force their beliefs on anyone else and that includes gays, religious nuts or SJW's because, real tolerance isn't group specific.

No, it's not a good point. It's comparing apples to oranges. We're comparing decorating a cake "Happy Wedding Day Bill & Steve" with "Happy Wedding Day Bill & Jenny". Nothing more. If you're selling cake #2, you are obligated to sell cake #1. Otherwise, get out of the business. You are never obligated to promote hatred, like andy's & Bart's silly non-sequiter.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

No, it's not a good point. It's comparing apples to oranges. We're comparing decorating a cake "Happy Wedding Day Bill & Steve" with "Happy Wedding Day Bill & Jenny". Nothing more.

Force a Muslim bakery to do it and let us know how that works out for you.

[Tyler_1]

Oh the great cake debate.
Again.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Force a Muslim bakery to do it and let us know how that works out for you.

The "Muslim" part is irrelevant.

[andyt]

That's not the way you worded it, which was a very broad statement. So now we're into trying to define the limits of what the cake maker has to do - can he be forced to make a pornographic cake? Of course there's what common sense would tell us is acceptable, but the law is very poor at common sense.

[Lemmy]

Of course we're defining limits. We do that in all aspects of society. But the laws on public accommodation are pretty clear. As a baker, or any other service person, you are not allowed to discriminate. The bases of discrimination are pretty clearly laid out in our Human Rights legislation. If you don't want to bake cakes for gay people, you're discriminating. If you're refusing to bake an Adolf Hitler cake, that's got nothing to do with discrimination. It's following the reasonable limits we place on hate speech. Apples and oranges.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Force a Muslim bakery to do it and let us know how that works out for you.

The "Muslim" part is irrelevant.

No, it's not.

Because people like yourself have no problem forcing your shit on people who won't kill you for doing so.

Keep this shit up and sooner or later some one of you activist shitstains will walk into the wrong place and make some ridiculous PC demand and you'll get your ass shot or beheaded for your trouble.

And if you people keep wanting to use the force of law to force your sexual deviance on everyone else then sooner or later you're going to see a backlash that won't just include telling you to take your gay cake order somewhere else.

People like you are just a bunch of fucking bullies and this horseshit is just an excuse for you to indulge your sadistic impulses.

If you want a gay wedding cake why not go to a gay tolerant bakery? Duh. I don't bother the gay bakery when I want a cake for an occasion that would offend the gays. Can't you fuckers have that much sense, too?

[stratos]

[herbie]

Love how the 'who's forcing who' get twisted ass backwards. The spirit of the 1950s South lives on.
"De Feds is violatin' mah civil rights forcin' me to serve niggas at my lunch counter." Sadly 60 years later, even more people believe that shit.
This bullshit "gay wedding cake" is the perfect example. What's the fucking difference between a straight wedding cake and a gay one? Different recipe?
They're too fucking stupid to tell customers we just bake cakes, we don't write on it and you supply the little plastic couples yourself.

[Freakinoldguy]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

While I'm not sympathetic to this law, what about a Jewish bakery being asked to decorate a cake with swastikas?

Good point.

Nobody and I mean nobody should have the right to force their beliefs on anyone else and that includes gays, religious nuts or SJW's because, real tolerance isn't group specific.

No, it's not a good point. It's comparing apples to oranges. We're comparing decorating a cake "Happy Wedding Day Bill & Steve" with "Happy Wedding Day Bill & Jenny". Nothing more. If you're selling cake #2, you are obligated to sell cake #1. Otherwise, get out of the business. You are never obligated to promote hatred, like andy's & Bart's silly non-sequiter.

The market and not the Gov't should and likely will dictate whether you stay in business after you refuse service to certain groups of individuals. But once again the SJW's want the Nanny State to make the people who don't agree with them comply by force of law which, flies in the face of the first amendment if that refusal is based on personal religious beliefs.

Anyone who goes to a business that opposes their own moral or religious beliefs and then attempts to force the owners to comply contrary to their wants would normally be labelled as nothing more than a trouble making antagonistic asshole. But, if you can't get the Gov't to force the people who oppose you to do your bidding you become the injured party which gives your cause immediate legitimacy.

If you want real freedom you have to grant it to all and not just a select few. This isn't the Gov't we're talking about here where people are or at least should be morally obliged to help all their constituents. We're talking about a private enterprise, where people should have individual rights and if that right includes refusing to serve people whose morals or religious beliefs are contrary to the owners then so be it and claiming that if they don't comply they should shut down is nothing more than dictatorial bullshit.

[2Cdo]

The question I have is who would want to use a service/store that makes it clear they don't want my service?

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No, it's not.

Because people like yourself have no problem forcing your shit on people who won't kill you for doing so.

Huh? People like me? Who's forcing anyone's shit on anyone else?

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Keep this shit up and sooner or later some one of you activist shitstains will walk into the wrong place and make some ridiculous PC demand and you'll get your ass shot or beheaded for your trouble.

And if you people keep wanting to use the force of law to force your sexual deviance on everyone else then sooner or later you're going to see a backlash that won't just include telling you to take your gay cake order somewhere else.

People like you are just a bunch of fucking bullies and this horseshit is just an excuse for you to indulge your sadistic impulses.

If you want a gay wedding cake why not go to a gay tolerant bakery? Duh. I don't bother the gay bakery when I want a cake for an occasion that would offend the gays. Can't you fuckers have that much sense, too?

Wow, that was an angry rant. Why are you so angry? I'm an activist? And did you just call me a shitstain? Fuck you, dinosaur.

Now for the reality:

A wedding cake is neither gay nor straight. A bakery is neither gay nor straight, nor Muslim. If you're offended by writing "Bill & Steve" on a cake then you shouldn't bake cakes for a living. You can have your private bigotries but you don't get to, in a civilized society, use those bigotries to discriminate. The day you hang your "Open for Business" sign, you enter into a social contract to operate your business within the confines of the human rights legislation in your jurisdiction. Now, if you don't like those rules you're fully justified in moving somewhere where the human rights laws more fit your point of view. Or, you can lobby your government to change those laws to suit your beliefs. But good luck with that because you, being the dinosaur you are, there are few people who share those antiquated beliefs and, collectively, you have no political power. The majority of your society has moved beyond this sort of petty bigotry. Roe v Wade isn't going to be reversed. Slavery isn't coming back. And I don't need to argue this drivel with fools like you because, no matter what, I win. Project your bigotry and lace it with as many angry ad hominems as you like. I am not your enemy. Gay people are not your enemy. Your enemy is progress. The times they are a changin'. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. If you can't deal with that without projecting your shit on others, maybe it's time to just hang yourself in the closet.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gay people are not your enemy.

Some of them are clearly the enemies of anyone who isn't willing to endorse their behavior and preferences.

And with regards to the rant, it is a rhetorical 'you' and not a literal you, personally, that I was using in that rant.

Oh, and bullies piss me off into a frothing fury. I fucking LOATHE bullies.

On the upside, I don't discriminate. I hate all bullies.

That includes the bullies who torture the gay kids. It also includes the gay kids who grow up to torture Christians.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Some of them are clearly the enemies of anyone who isn't willing to endorse their behavior and preferences.

No one is asking their behaviours be endorsed. They just want a fucking cake. If one of them dropped and needed first aid, pumping their chest wouldn't be endorsing their private behaviours either.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And with regards to the rant, it is a rhetorical 'you' and not a literal you, personally, that I was using in that rant.

When you quoted me it became me, personally, who was the target.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Oh, and bullies piss me off into a frothing fury. I fucking LOATHE bullies. On the upside, I don't discriminate. I hate all bullies. That includes the bullies who torture the gay kids. It also includes the gay kids who grow up to torture Christians.

I hate bullies too. You don't seem to so much as you say, though, because the bully in this scenario is clearly the cakeshop who won't cater to a legitimate customer because of their own bigotry. Exclusion from the group on arbitrary grounds is Bully Tactic #1. So stop defending bullies if you hate them so much.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I hate bullies too. You don't seem to so much as you say, though, because the bully in this scenario is clearly the cakeshop who won't cater to a legitimate customer because of their own bigotry. Exclusion from the group on arbitrary grounds is Bully Tactic #1. So stop defending bullies if you hate them so much.

No one is saying that gay people can't buy a plain old cake or donut at any bake shop. And, yes, I'd agree that it would be discrimination to refuse to sell a donut to someone just because they're gay.

The bullying occurs when a gay activist tries to force a Christian baker to create something that is offensive to the baker.

Shall the gay bakery be forced to bake a "GOD HATES FAGS" cake for the Westboro Church?

Isn't that how you're reading this?

Down here we have the 14th Amendment and Equal Protection Under The Law. That means that at least in Mississippi the gay baker has the same protection as the Christian baker in refusing to make something they find personally offensive.

I'd call it a reasonable law.