[shockedcanadian]

Thanos Thanos:

It's difficult to want to engage when it seems to be some kind of perpetual gripe against the cops being played out over multiple threads.

Perpetual gripe against the unaccountable and abuse of authority. You're bloody right about that. My family and I have suffered due to some of these lying sob's, none of them in uniform by the way all of them cowards and full of shyte. If they aren't accountable to me, they will be accountable to our allies due to some of their underhanded tactics.

One of these operatives who I knew in high school is now a plain clothed officer in the NYPD. Every time I saw this guy his eyes were red, he was high on one thing or another and it seemed he graduated over time into heavier drugs, I didn't realize at the time he was a cop. Is this guy someone who should have ever have been a cop? Of course not. For the record, I don't have a record nor allegations, but the types of things I saw then and think about now knowing what I know is astonishing. Disgusting in all honesty.

We are a relic, an ancient society still living in the 1960's in regard to the level of accountability demanded of our public servants. Nowhere is this abuse more rampant and offensive than in our security apparatus. These are police being called to the carpet for well known instances, you can be sure the number of incidents, especially with plain clothed officers is exponentially higher and probably just as horrific.

These are mainstream stories with consequences for our democracy, our reputation, our economy, indeed our future and they need to be addressed. I am fully supportive of men and women in uniform who do their job properly. It is partially a reason I become dismayed and frustrated by the lack of evolution in our system.

If they have to deal with peaceful protestors, so be it. Why would anyone be outraged at peaceful protestors?

[BartSimpson]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

If they have to deal with peaceful protestors, so be it. Why would anyone be outraged at peaceful protestors?

Peaceful protesters are the single greatest threat to tyrants because if you kill the peaceful protesters they become martyrs. And then they inspire millions to act.

Peaceful protests can also signal a sea change in the collective consciousness as was seen in Romania when the dictator Ceausescu suddenly lost control of the government and the people. Within the space of a week almost everyone in Romania stopped fearing the dictator and stopped following his orders.

His thugs fled the country.

Ditto in the USA. The Tyrants who rule in some parts of the US fear that the public will not fear them and the law enforcement who act on behalf of the tyrants fear that the armed populace will stop giving a fuck about badges and uniforms.

That's not all law enforcement, mind you. But the bad guys know who they are and if you're paying attention then you do, too.

[shockedcanadian]

Thanos Thanos:

I enjoy the part where someone who says things like "we're supposed to be a nation of laws" tosses all that aside without a thought, wants to ignore the legal process altogether, engage in trial by media, and basically have lynch-mob justice in any "crimes" allegedly committed by police. There's no philosophy behind this. This is just an anti-police agenda. Which makes it a perfect match to #BLM because BLM is about nothing but trying to get black criminals exempt from any and all laws because they're apparently perpetual victims of whitey's racism.

I have no pity for anyone who got shot by the cops for attacking them with a hammer than I do for the lump of shit that got shot by the cops after trying to strangle a store clerk that he just stole cigarettes from. Don't act like a prick and you won't get nailed. It's a basic universal law that cop-haters and garbage like BLM simply aren't capable of ever figuring out.

Police are civil servants. So are politicians. As I see it, as long as the discussion is focused and honest, why shouldn't they answer questions?

If I have nothing to hide I should be happily willing to answer questions. I know from personal experience, I offered that to the unaccountable, of course they didn't want that, because the facts of what some in the government have done would not bode well for their reputation. The prefer quiet backstabbing, so I take the high road of total transparency, which inherently is the enemy of those who have something to hide.

In my case, since certain agencies didn't want to be accountable I simply spread the facts to politicians and police agencies in the U.S, UK and some in the EU. I figure, no accountability domestically even after a decade of attempts I would blow the whistle on the facts to those who make it their business to know who their allies are and who aren't...

Some on here don't realize it, but there are always economic consequences to those who interfere in the lives of businesses and their citizens. It's a near universal truth even if it isn't overtly expressed. Businesses don't do well in "centralized government" systems.

[Thanos]

You didn't talk about peaceful protesters. You talked about the cops automatically being the bad guys for shooting some asshole who went at them with a hammer.

[shockedcanadian]

Bart with all due respect; and I mean this is a nice way, until you have LIVED a system, not simply been exposed to it, it's very difficult to fathom the fissure of differences.

I had this discussion with Americans before. I explained to them, "when you are in another country you assume the universal, natural laws that Americans hold so dearly. You don't appreciate the fact that these systems have little regard for these premises".

This isn't just about police. It's about a greater system of individualism, transparency and accountability.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You spend an awful lot of time avoiding commenting on topics from the OP just to take issue with certain posters and their comments.

Why don't you try engaging in the conversation?

There needs to be a conversation first. Ranting, spewing unsupported conspiracies and repeating ones pet peeves, over and over, isn't a conversation.

[shockedcanadian]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You spend an awful lot of time avoiding commenting on topics from the OP just to take issue with certain posters and their comments.

Why don't you try engaging in the conversation?

There needs to be a conversation first. Ranting, spewing unsupported conspiracies and repeating ones pet peeves, over and over, isn't a conversation.

Being detained at the border, threats made against me, employment interference are not conspiracies. Anymore than anything you have experienced in your life is not a conspiracy.

John Tory has publicly stated he is going to try and encourage a large number of Torontonians to come back to Toronto due to the "fear of Trump winning the election". You can't make this up. I ask aloud, how many making a good living in California (the state he stated he would try and recruit back from) would return to Toronto based on the results of this election? These are workers in high tech industries that have a skill set that Toronto and Ontario now wants.

How about running a system that rewards accordingly and is more in line with God given Rights and accountability? That trumps (pun intended) any begging you feel you might be successful at for some sort of "home discount".

Bottom line, our situation is going to become worse because there is no president left in the race that would be as good for Canada as the current president Obama is. With renegotiations of NAFTA on the table, the kibosh on the TPP coming up, Canada is going to be in a tough spot. This, on top of America creating a great environment that rightly poached our best citizens.

You need to understand the bigger picture beyond just one isolated case.

[Lemmy]

See, OTI, how do you turn that ↑ crazy nonsense into a conversation?

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

See, OTI, how do you turn that ↑ crazy nonsense into a conversation?

Point taken.

[Thanos]

I won't speak for Lemmy but I see where he's coming from. You're using an alleged incident that happened to you to construct an overall conspiracy-meta that doesn't make any sense. This is where your argument is collapsing into ruins. This kind of absurdity really deserves to be countered with more absurdity.

I had my car impounded once for having expired registration tags. I'd moved and forgot to contact the MVB with the address change so they couldn't find me. The cops pulled me over and had my car towed. I was plenty pissed off at them for it, mostly because I had, and still have, an incredibly clean record that should have got me a break. That being said, I didn't take my own experience and connect it to NAFTA and the Trilateral Commission and then extend it to agreeing that the moon landings were faked. Because, y'know, that would be kind of a stupid thing to do.

[shockedcanadian]

Lemmy Lemmy:

See, OTI, how do you turn that ↑ crazy nonsense into a conversation?

Crazy nonsense?

My wife and I pursued an FOIA due to this detainment. We were told by the U.S border guard that they didn't have a problem with us, but you might want to speak to your (our) government.

If the concept of liberty is a difficult one for to grasp I won't hold it against you.

The argument being made is that this organization doesn't have any reason to protest. If this is the case, than they are wasting their time and it's no skin off of your backs, if it isn't the case, they should have their concerned at least entertained. I am stating the case that the abuses of police and government interference in citizens lives have drastic consequences that impact much broader issues.

10x the number of Canadians leave for America and never return than vice versa, this, even though we have a much smaller population.

[shockedcanadian]

Thanos Thanos:

I won't speak for Lemmy but I see where he's coming from. You're using an alleged incident that happened to you to construct an overall conspiracy-meta that doesn't make any sense. This is where your argument is collapsing into ruins. This kind of absurdity really deserves to be countered with more absurdity.

I had my car impounded once for having expired registration tags. I'd moved and forgot to contact the MVB with the address change so they couldn't find me. The cops pulled me over and had my car towed. I was plenty pissed off at them for it, mostly because I had, and still have, an incredibly clean record that should have got me a break. That being said, I didn't take my own experience and connect it to NAFTA and the Trilateral Commission and then extend it to agreeing that the moon landings were faked. Because, y'know, that would be kind of a stupid thing to do.

A conspiracy meta, no, an overt system that disregards accountability, yes.

My "conspiracy" was supposed to have been dealt with a decade ago. Since it wasn't, it has become a much worse situation for Canadian interests, you wouldn't believe the level of detail and particulars I have shared with US authorities. Accountability would have corrected this a long time ago, this to me isn't even debatable based on the history in Canada.

Accountability for authority doesn't exist, transparency rarely exists, CYA is an acronym embraced and trumpeted by police forces, it is regularly accepted. Canada will change or it will falter.

[Lemmy]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

Crazy nonsense?

My wife and I pursued an FOIA due to this detainment. We were told by the U.S border guard that they didn't have a problem with us, but you might want to speak to your (our) government.

If the concept of liberty is a difficult one for to grasp I won't hold it against you.

The argument being made is that this organization doesn't have any reason to protest. If this is the case, than they are wasting their time and it's no skin off of your backs, if it isn't the case, they should have their concerned at least entertained. I am stating the case that the abuses of police and government interference in citizens lives have drastic consequences that impact much broader issues.

10x the number of Canadians leave for America and never return than vice versa, this, even though we have a much smaller population.

mmm hmmm

[N_Fiddledog]

Whatever...

This remains true:

BRAH BRAH:

These Fucking C***s need to get a Fucking Life! Their hypocrisy is pathetic, they only care when it's cool to jump on the bandwagon. They're the same losers who jumped on the Occupy Wall Street bandwagon. Fuck Them!

[ShepherdsDog]

WTF...do we have another flare up of gangstalking insanity??