[OnTheIce]

Prisoners die in custody all the time.

Do we send out a press release each time with specific, private and personal details of why the person died?

[ShepherdsDog]

I wonder if he accuses nurses and doctors of murdering patients every time someone dies in a hospital

[Thanos]

$1:

.....Gahungu was a Hutu......

Probably one of these mass murdering war criminals from that part of the world who somehow got refugee approval thanks to the Chretien immigration department being asleep at the wheel for the majority of their time in office. Fucker did himself in before he got sent back home where the families of his victims could get their hands on him most likely. Good riddance and no tears need to be shed over this one.

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I wonder if he accuses nurses and doctors of murdering patients every time someone dies in a hospital

Not every time. Hopefully you're not naïve enough to think it never happens, right?

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ho ... l+of+death

[BartSimpson]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

Bart, America is very different, don't even believe how some in Canada compare similarities as if we are both nations of liberty.

In America you have the Constitution, a history of breaking from empires (fighting and beating them for independence), free press (we have state run press a la CBC), strictly adhered to standards of protecting God ordained rights, self determination over centralized control by government, restrictions of police agencies who are overseen and accountable by politicians.

In Canada we have the RCMP...

A few years back I used to retort to those who said they routinely obeyed authority as being well suited to being ruled by other people.

This is true of most of the Canadians with whom I come into contact.

It's a worldview that not a lot of Americans share. We do not instantly believe the words of our leaders and we do not instantly comply when a police officer gets into our business without just cause.

And we expect to know what our government is up to and when they insist that something should be kept secret then we expect there to be a valid argument of national security at stake.

"Because we do not want to look bad" is not an excuse.

We have the right to see Hillary Clinton's emails when she was Secretary of State.

But you folks don't get to know why someone died in government custody?

And we're the ones who are fucked up?

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But you folks don't get to know why someone died in government custody?

And we're the ones who are fucked up?

He hanged himself. He suffered from mental illness.

We know why he died.

[shockedcanadian]

To be completely honest Bart, Canada does not adhere to due process. This ideology is ingrained in the Canadian psyche. We are diametrically opposed to the American system of accountability, its part of our history as members of the monarchy. Caste system, systemic (hush hush) prejudice and cronyism. This is why many in Canada try to paint America so badly, they don't want to be accountable, the very notion is dispelled in this country.

What is most frightening in my experience; and I have experienced this first hand, is that citizens in Canada, like sheep that East German citizens were, will gladly accept the word of the security apparatus to interfere with ones career, ones pursuits, ones assumption of innocence, simply by their very word. I am a prime example as one without charges, allegations, a criminal record. They ordered me detained at the border, have terrorized my wife and I for years, destroyed my career and worked very hard to silence me. There is absolutely no mechanism of accountability. From threats to my life, to someone leaving a bag of dog excrement outside our door the night my father in law died, you would be shocked at what some of us have had to endure.

If you are a whistleblower and have information that can harm the very apparatus sworn to uphold our rights, good luck to you. The spirit of America's forefathers is still intact in America, it drives you to maintain the principles that Canada refuses to embrace, if we ever had them at all.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But you folks don't get to know why someone died in government custody?

And we're the ones who are fucked up?

He hanged himself. He suffered from mental illness.

We know why he died.

No, you don't. You've been told it's a secret and someone leaked that the man hanged himself and you're satisfied with that instead of asking for the autopsy and official reports which obviously say something more than what you've been told.

[BartSimpson]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

To be completely honest Bart, Canada does not adhere to due process. This ideology is ingrained in the Canadian psyche. We are diametrically opposed to the American system of accountability, its part of our history as members of the monarchy. Caste system, systemic (hush hush) prejudice and cronyism. This is why many in Canada try to paint America so badly, they don't want to be accountable, the very notion is dispelled in this country.

You're very right. And I think most of them don't want to be accountable to themselves and this is a part of why they turn to government as the answer for too many of their day-to-day life events.

Look at how so many of them lose their shit at the mention of 'self reliance'. One of them will predictably lose their shit at this mention. (Yes, that's a troll.)

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

What is most frightening in my experience; and I have experienced this first hand, is that citizens in Canada, like sheep that East German citizens were, will gladly accept the word of the security apparatus to interfere with ones career, ones pursuits, ones assumption of innocence, simply by their very word. I am a prime example as one without charges, allegations, a criminal record. They ordered me detained at the border, have terrorized my wife and I for years, destroyed my career and worked very hard to silence me. There is absolutely no mechanism of accountability. From threats to my life, to someone leaving a bag of dog excrement outside our door the night my father in law died, you would be shocked at what some of us have had to endure.

That's horrid. Is this still occurring?

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

If you are a whistleblower and have information that can harm the very apparatus sworn to uphold our rights, good luck to you. The spirit of America's forefathers is still intact in America, it drives you to maintain the principles that Canada refuses to embrace, if we ever had them at all.

We have people in the US who would much prefer the Canadian or even the East German way of doing things.

Because it's so much easier to rule people when they don't have crazy ideas like 'rights' and 'laws' making them so difficult to rule over.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No, you don't. You've been told it's a secret and someone leaked that the man hanged himself and you're satisfied with that instead of asking for the autopsy and official reports which obviously say something more than what you've been told.

Because it's none of our business how he died.

Why the fuck do you think you're entitled to know very personal and private information about this man?

You're entitled to nothing.

This guy is a convicted murderer who killed himself and we kept him here to prevent him from being deported because of the dangerous situation in his home country. Even scum like this are entitled to some form of privacy.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Because it's none of our business how he died.

Why the fuck do you think you're entitled to know very personal and private information about this man?

You're entitled to nothing.

If you were murdered or even just accidentally killed while in custody would you want someone to know about it or are you really so committed to your love of the State that you'd want them to have the ability to cover up murder?

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

If you were murdered or even just accidentally killed while in custody would you want someone to know about it or are you really so committed to your love of the State that you'd want them to have the ability to cover up murder?

He was in jail.

Do we assume that every death in a jail might be murder?

What about someone dying in the hospital. Murder too?

Nonsense.

[ShepherdsDog]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

But you folks don't get to know why someone died in government custody?

And we're the ones who are fucked up?

He hanged himself. He suffered from mental illness.

We know why he died.

No, you don't. You've been told it's a secret and someone leaked that the man hanged himself and you're satisfied with that instead of asking for the autopsy and official reports which obviously say something more than what you've been told.

FFS....is this ridiculous paranoia a symptom of some deeper problem? I've already said that coroner's reports take a while to finalize, and only after a police investigation has taken place. He's been dead a week. Sorry, but I'll take our system any day of the week and twice and Sundays over the media circus yours has turned into.

[stratos]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No, you don't. You've been told it's a secret and someone leaked that the man hanged himself and you're satisfied with that instead of asking for the autopsy and official reports which obviously say something more than what you've been told.

Because it's none of our business how he died.

Why the fuck do you think you're entitled to know very personal and private information about this man?

You're entitled to nothing.

This guy is a convicted murderer who killed himself and we kept him here to prevent him from being deported because of the dangerous situation in his home country. Even scum like this are entitled to some form of privacy.

Because we wish to ensure that:

1) It is how they say it is. A suicide and not a murder

2) If it was a murder that the person or person(s) who killed this man get caught

3) To ensure that, if it was a suicide, better measure be taken to prevent another such occurrence if possible.

and

4) Incase someone we care about and or love ends up in prison the same thing does not happen to him or her.

[shockedcanadian]

[quote="BartSimpsonCanada, .[/quote]

That's horrid. Is this still occurring?

[quote="shockedcanadian"]


In a word yes.

The irony of this is, I believed unwisely that when I raised these facts a decade ago to our former government that the situation would be corrected. Instead it became worse.

More irony. I was standing up to agents (one in particular) who were spreading hatred against the United States and Israel. Horrible, disgusting suggestions that almost caused a fight at work I was so angry. This happened at IBM, a major American corporation obviously, and also at a large bank to a lesser extent. He was also trying to generate interest in a union at IBM, going against the NAFTA agreement as a state agent. Surely once I raised this with the powers that be accountability would occur right? Of course I was quite wrong.

I promised from day one that if this wasn't corrected quietly and diplomatically that I would expand those who would be informed of the details. As it were, I even have emails from this agent, something he probably regrets sending especially when I didn't respond to 95% of his bs.

Of all the places I have posted I found one thing in common, it is the French and Americans who took an interest in my case. In this I mean some members of government and media. The UN opened up a file but with Canadian discussions the file was quietly closed. Again, I don't have a criminal record nor allegations; in fact, I demanded the Public Safety Minister back up his agencys' tactics by either charging me with a crime, or leaving me alone. I even offered to meet them outside and they could place me in cuffs, I would face any allegations in a court via due process. These are basic concepts that are hundreds of years old, since the Magna Carta. This happening over a number of years!

They cannot charge me with a crime because I haven't committed any, this is about persecution to silence, it backfired miserably for them as the day I left Toronto after the last threat I experienced there, I actively reached out to those who needed to know details. They are trying to silence me as the embarrassment of this situation would run deep. Especially for our neighbours to the south, and in particular during these very precarious times economically and security wise.

I was threatened on three different occasions. Once by someone who I had never seen before at a local library when he followed me around and told me that he knew where I lived I didn't back down and challenged him, to which he abruptly left the library. This was right after I had made my initial complaint to the government. My wife witnessed this, and she was also with me when we were detained at the U.S border, the U.S guard advised us essentially that it wasn't an issue with them, and that we "might want to speak to your (our) government. Have a nice day." We were allowed to enter without further incident.

The bottom line. This is a persecution that can never occur in any country that calls themselves a democracy. I have reached out to higher office in the U.S, some in the economic development, others in law enforcement. At this juncture, most certainly this is going to end with me leaving Canada, and I won't leave without speaking the facts to as many as I can. This has cost me multiple careers, my potential retirement savings, and soon our home. I won't let them strip me of my dignity and most importantly the repercussions to Canada.

Canadians can either address our shortcomings or fall further behind. Stories such as these in which a person dies while in police custody demands transparency. It doesn't matter who he is, or even how horrible a human being he is. Facts need to be facts, this can't be a game of optics.