[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

When you opt to ignore the record of the current Liberals and Kathleen Wynne, as you have done above with your suggestion that they haven't done anything in the last year, and brush off criticism of the government based on facts and not rhetoric, you're either blind to what's taking place or you support the Liberals.

I'm not blind and I don't support the Liberals. I support facts. I reject exaggerations and wrongfully assigned blame.

OTI OTI:

"When you ignore the obvious like the sale of Hydro One, the pending ORPP, staggering debt/deficit and the current OPP charges in Sudbury to suggest she's done nothing is just turning a blind eye or ignorance.

Ignore the sale of Hydro One? Huh? I've been nothing but critical of it. Same with ORPP. When have I said anything other than "It's a bad idea"? As for the debt/deficit, well, I don't like it but it's not really Wynne's fault. The public knew of the debt/deficit record of Liberals before electing her, so that's not why her approval rating is so low. She ran her election on the ORRP and the sale of Hydro One, so the public knew about that too. So if they voted for her, knowing all that, why is her approval rate low? The Sudbury-business isn't her fault, so there's no reason to think the public hates her for that. Hell, most Ontarians haven't a clue about it, so it's doubtful that it enters into their evaluation of Wynne.

So I'll repeat the question: why do only 29% of Ontarians think she's doing a good job? Because if it's the things you say (Hydro One, deficit, ORRP and OPP) then why did they vote for her in the first place? She told them all that shit was going to happen (except the Sudbury-thing, which again, isn't really got anything to do with Wynne) so what's the problem? The public's getting what it voted for.

[BRAH]

Rachel Notley's numbers are possibly lower.

[Thanos]

Getting that bad anyway. Not telling whatserface Clark in BC to fuck off over what she said about AB was a huge mistake. Even Redford, for all her flaws, would have torn into Clark like a pitbull on a poodle but Notley was like "oh well".

Wynne is on record as being pro-Energy East so there's that in her favour I guess.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Ignore the sale of Hydro One? Huh? I've been nothing but critical of it. Same with ORPP. When have I said anything other than "It's a bad idea"? As for the debt/deficit, well, I don't like it but it's not really Wynne's fault. The public knew of the debt/deficit record of Liberals before electing her, so that's not why her approval rating is so low. She ran her election on the ORRP and the sale of Hydro One, so the public knew about that too. So if they voted for her, knowing all that, why is her approval rate low? The Sudbury-business isn't her fault, so there's no reason to think the public hates her for that. Hell, most Ontarians haven't a clue about it, so it's doubtful that it enters into their evaluation of Wynne.

If you claim to not support these things Wynne has done, why do you come to her defence with the "not so bad" mantra?

You're blowing and sucking at the same time.

Lemmy Lemmy:

So I'll repeat the question: why do only 29% of Ontarians think she's doing a good job? Because if it's the things you say (Hydro One, deficit, ORRP and OPP) then why did they vote for her in the first place? She told them all that shit was going to happen (except the Sudbury-thing, which again, isn't really got anything to do with Wynne) so what's the problem? The public's getting what it voted for.

Likely because voters don't pay much attention to the details of an election or policy.

Canadian voters, especially Ontarian aren't very well informed when it comes to elections at any level. We take democracy for granted. That said, we can't bitch when things go badly when we vote in a party who made their intentions very clear.

[BRAH]

Thanos Thanos:

Getting that bad anyway. Not telling whatserface Clark in BC to fuck off over what she said about AB was a huge mistake. Even Redford, for all her flaws, would have torn into Clark like a pitbull on a poodle but Notley was like "oh well".

Wynne is on record as being pro-Energy East so there's that in her favour I guess.

Sorry what's that?

[Thanos]

Big boobs attached to a creature of pure evil = lethal kryptonite for far too many a man. Although for me it's more their asses.

[2Cdo]

Thanos Thanos:

Big boobs attached to a creature of pure evil = lethal kryptonite for far too many a man. Although for me it's more their asses.

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

Big boobs attached to a creature of pure evil = lethal kryptonite for far too many a man. Although for me it's more their asses.

That's because you are used to watching them walk away. (sorry, couldn't resist)

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

If you claim to not support these things Wynne has done, why do you come to her defence with the "not so bad" mantra?

I'm not coming to her defense! I'm taking the wind out of your exaggerations. Because despite those things that government is doing that I disapprove of, life in Ontario is still pretty good. You and your lot would have us believe the sky is falling. OMG, there's no economy left in Ontario! BULLSHIT! Manufacturing grows in Ontario every year. Incomes in Ontario are growing year by year. Jobs are being added to the Ontario economy monthly. Things aren't perfect. There's a lot to be concerned about. But not the big picture. The big picture is good. You overestimate the Premier and her government's effect on our welfare. Wynne has little to do with the good things in Ontario either. You also vastly understate how good Ontarians' welfares are.

OTI OTI:

Likely because voters don't pay much attention to the details of an election or policy.

I don't disagree, but why not? I submit it's because it doesn't matter all that much to most Ontarians who's running the provincial government because the government's actions don't significantly affect their lives all that much.

OTI OTI:

Canadian voters, especially Ontarian aren't very well informed when it comes to elections at any level. We take democracy for granted. That said, we can't bitch when things go badly when we vote in a party who made their intentions very clear.

That's probably true. But it's no worse than people like you who care too much about things that don't affect you nearly as much as you believe. You hate Liberals on principle and that perspective makes you exaggerate to the point where you think every policy you disagree with makes the state of affairs in Ontario worse than Zimbabwe.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

That's probably true. But it's no worse than people like you who care too much about things that don't affect you nearly as much as you believe. You hate Liberals on principle and that perspective makes you exaggerate to the point where you think every policy you disagree with makes the state of affairs in Ontario worse than Zimbabwe.

Speaking of exaggerations, you've done a lot of that yourself above. I do not "hate" Liberals when in fact, I have a lot of my personal beliefs that line up directly with the Liberals.

I care about governments of any stripe governing responsibly and being equally responsible with our tax dollars. I can't stand governments, like the McGuinty and Wynne government that treat all Ontarians like idiots. They work for us and the day we stop worrying or caring about what the government does, we're in trouble.

Maybe the Ontario Liberals are onto something. Treating us like fools and still getting elected. Maybe others can learn from them.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Speaking of exaggerations, you've done a lot of that yourself above. I do not "hate" Liberals when in fact, I have a lot of my personal beliefs that line up directly with the Liberals.

What have I exaggerated about, other than, if I'm to take you at your word, your hatred for liberals?

OTI OTI:

I care about governments of any stripe governing responsibly and being equally responsible with our tax dollars. I can't stand governments, like the McGuinty and Wynne government that treat all Ontarians like idiots. They work for us and the day we stop worrying or caring about what the government does, we're in trouble.

That's exactly what I mean. Your primary issue is taxation. If the government were to raise a tax, you'd be against it, no matter what. Your perspective on taxes makes you exaggerate a tax change's effect on your welfare. As for "treating you like idiots", give me some examples. Tell me what Wynne and McGuinty's governments have done that have hurt you. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not defending Wynne/McGuinty. I never have. What I'm doing is challenging you to be objective in your criticism.

And while we're discussing blame, is there anything either Wynne or McGuinty's governments have done that you approve of? Are you going to give them any credit for things that have gone well in your life over the past 10 years? Again, I don't think the provincial government has much impact, positive or negative, on our welfares, but if you're going to rip them for what you disagree with, shouldn't you also concede/give credit for the positive?

OTI OTI:

Maybe the Ontario Liberals are onto something. Treating us like fools and still getting elected. Maybe others can learn from them.

How are they treating you like a fool?

[Thanos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Thanos Thanos:

Big boobs attached to a creature of pure evil = lethal kryptonite for far too many a man. Although for me it's more their asses.

That's because you are used to watching them walk away. (sorry, couldn't resist)

That view from behind as they went the other direction made up for it because some of them were sure wOOt.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

What have I exaggerated about, other than, if I'm to take you at your word, your hatred for liberals?

You don't have to look far to see an exaggeration.

$1:

If the government were to raise a tax, you'd be against it, no matter what.

Not the case at all.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Your perspective on taxes makes you exaggerate a tax change's effect on your welfare. As for "treating you like idiots", give me some examples. Tell me what Wynne and McGuinty's governments have done that have hurt you. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not defending Wynne/McGuinty. I never have. What I'm doing is challenging you to be objective in your criticism.

They have done nothing to hurt me personally. The Liberals shoveled a load of bullshit to get elected. Maybe they're not idiots, maybe we're the idiots or fools for believing them time and time again. They'll just apologize and all will be forgiven.

They make moves like cancelling those gas plants mid-election and then run around trying to cover it up as if we all didn't see exactly what took place there.

Lemmy Lemmy:

And while we're discussing blame, is there anything either Wynne or McGuinty's governments have done that you approve of? Are you going to give them any credit for things that have gone well in your life over the past 10 years? Again, I don't think the provincial government has much impact, positive or negative, on our welfares, but if you're going to rip them for what you disagree with, shouldn't you also concede/give credit for the positive?

If there was something that they did that made a positive impact on my life, I'd be sure to share it. Nothing as of yet.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

They have done nothing to hurt me personally.

Now we're getting somewhere.

OTI OTI:

The Liberals shoveled a load of bullshit to get elected. Maybe they're not idiots, maybe we're the idiots or fools for believing them time and time again. They'll just apologize and all will be forgiven.

The liberals weren't elected on the basis of anything they said, did, nor promised, bullshit or otherwise. The liberals keep winning by default. In 2007, they won because Tory promised religion-based education funding which put the campaign on a wedge issue that voters rejected. In 2014, they lost because Hudak tried to sell firing 100,000 people as a campaign promise. And while it was likely a good policy to pursue, it was political suicide. Finally, as I've said repeatedly, the toxic branding of the PC and NDP parties as a result of Mike Harris and Bob Rae remains in force. The Harris & Rae legacy is to make their parties unelectable a decade later.

OTI OTI:

They make moves like cancelling those gas plants mid-election and then run around trying to cover it up as if we all didn't see exactly what took place there.

We've been over this before. All three parties made the same promise to try and secure votes. They all whored for Oakville.

OTI OTI:

If there was something that they did that made a positive impact on my life, I'd be sure to share it. Nothing as of yet.

You don't think the trade missions have been worthwhile? Wynne's done a lot of travelling, selling Ontario. You cheered Rob Ford for doing it for Toronto, didn't you? And Wynne's returned with deals in her hand. I already cited jobs and manufacturing dollars. I'm not prepared to credit Wynne with causation, but the numbers are what they are. How about beer/wine regulation/sale? New curriculum? You cheered Harris for it, no? In fact you wrongly stated that Harris' changes to curriculum were still in effect. They're not. It's all new. Pan-Am games? Partnership with Toronto on transit/ expanding GO? Teacher contracts?

So back to the original question. What has she done to garner so much hatred? Is it McGuinty hangover from eHealth, Ornge and Gas Plants? Or has she done something herself to have you conclude she's doing a bad job?

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

The liberals weren't elected on the basis of anything they said, did, nor promised, bullshit or otherwise.

Interesting to note that you glossed over how they got into power in the first place. Bold faced lies to get into office.

Lemmy Lemmy:

We've been over this before. All three parties made the same promise to try and secure votes. They all whored for Oakville.

Yes, and you continue to deflect away any blame from the Liberals with the same explanation that doesn't hold water.

Only 1 party tried to cover it up and used the decision mid-campaign to buy votes. Saying you'll do something once elected or would have done prior is far different than pulling the plug mid-election when the election is on the line and then resorting to criminal activity after the fact to cover up what really happened.

Lemmy Lemmy:

You don't think the trade missions have been worthwhile? Wynne's done a lot of travelling, selling Ontario. You cheered Rob Ford for doing it for Toronto, didn't you? And Wynne's returned with deals in her hand.

Which deals? The one to India that might create a whopping 150 jobs?

Lemmy Lemmy:

How about beer/wine regulation/sale?

Doesn't affect me.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Pan-Am games?

Partnership with Toronto on transit/ expanding GO?

Didn't affect me.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teacher contracts?

Before or after they screwed the teachers?

Lemmy Lemmy:

So back to the original question. What has she done to garner so much hatred? Is it McGuinty hangover from eHealth, Ornge and Gas Plants? Or has she done something herself to have you conclude she's doing a bad job?

Likely due to the complete lack of anything her government has done beyond run up our debt.