[andyt]

$1:

Aside from health-care costs, Kenney said a growing number of sponsored seniors are ending up on welfare and this is a concern to the government. The sponsoring family must cover income support costs for the first 10 years of residency, but after that, Kenney says more than 25 per cent are receiving welfare benefits.

He said he's been hearing from municipal housing authorities who say they are seeing a growing number of seniors moving into subsidized public housing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/don-t-b ... -1.1351002

$1:

But the Liberal plan is unlikely to meet the huge demand for family reunification. The Conservative government cleared a backlog of 165,000 applications for parents and grandparents in 2011 by admitting 70,000 applicants between 2012 and 2014, putting a temporary freeze on new applications, tightening who could apply, introducing a 10-year super visa for parents and grandparents, and putting an annual cap of 5,000 on future applications.

Family reunifications for parents and grandparents cost approximately $30,000 per head between 2012 and 2014, according to a study Collacott conducted for the Fraser Institute.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... ion-policy

That's 2.1 billion for 2012 to 2014. Your 3 cents has gone up to 70 bucks, Lemmy.

[andyt]

$1:

Canadians facing high costs because of Family Class immigration: study

It is estimated that sponsored parents and grandparents received, on average, $6,262 in Old Age Security (OAS) and Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS) payments plus $1,381 in other government transfers for a total of $7,644 a year. And that doesn’t include potential health care costs.

Given that average total income for elderly recent immigrants is estimated at $15,696, it is highly unlikely that senior sponsored parents and grandparents pay enough in taxes to cover the costs of these programs.

http://canadianimmigrant.ca/slider/cana ... tion-study

[Thanos]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Yes it will. Your xenophobia will make people hate you (and, by association, me) back. But you'll be the one starting it.

So it was Canadian's xenophobia that forced the elder Khadr to join Al Qaeda and become one of the main architects of 9/11? That's a new one, even by the standards of the perverse left that's spent the last sixty years warping everything it could to ensure that criminals could never be held liable for any of their actions.

[housewife]

andyt andyt:

Bringing in people who are a drain on our social and medical systems but have never paid taxes certainly affects all of us. Lots of gnashing of teeth about our aging population and how the young people will have to support us. Why bring in more?

I'm shocked... aren't the one usually trying to get people to embrace their inner bleeding heart lib. Last I checked being a grandparent didn't mean being old or a burden on society.

[Khar]

andyt andyt:

$1:

Aside from health-care costs, Kenney said a growing number of sponsored seniors are ending up on welfare and this is a concern to the government. The sponsoring family must cover income support costs for the first 10 years of residency, but after that, Kenney says more than 25 per cent are receiving welfare benefits.

He said he's been hearing from municipal housing authorities who say they are seeing a growing number of seniors moving into subsidized public housing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/don-t-b ... -1.1351002

$1:

But the Liberal plan is unlikely to meet the huge demand for family reunification. The Conservative government cleared a backlog of 165,000 applications for parents and grandparents in 2011 by admitting 70,000 applicants between 2012 and 2014, putting a temporary freeze on new applications, tightening who could apply, introducing a 10-year super visa for parents and grandparents, and putting an annual cap of 5,000 on future applications.

Family reunifications for parents and grandparents cost approximately $30,000 per head between 2012 and 2014, according to a study Collacott conducted for the Fraser Institute.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... ion-policy

That's 2.1 billion for 2012 to 2014. Your 3 cents has gone up to 70 bucks, Lemmy.

That amount of seniors on welfare does not deviate far from the norm for Canadian seniors either. The majority, even by the most extreme interpretation of what Kenney was saying, still provide the economic benefits that are being described by Lemmy, especially given the sheer number of relatives working in the Canadian economy to cover the tax gap. After ten years of their family contributing to the economy, buying goods, paying taxes and covering their parents costs, I'm betting it's safe to say they have paid a fair bit into the system and will continue to pay into the system (in addition to those working not getting access to the benefits over that period either). Kind of hard to take that as evidence they were a "drain on our social services" all on it's own, Andy.

Indeed, the big question here is why we end up with so many seniors in care in general, and if there are endemic problems in support for seniors or if we are making life overtly difficult for immigrants for poor reasons. After all, if you actually read reports on the topic (including by your own Collacott) you begin to notice no serious link or examination takes place on how this issue should be fixed, or how immigration itself is leading to this issue, or if we can't make it more economically viable.

As for the second bit, well, the day an old, failed diplomat (go ahead, try and find references to him that aren't about the Fraser Institute) is considered a statistician, economist or policy analyst, feel free to use his word as evidence. As it stands, when even that professional (and irrelevant) experience many decades in his past, I'll treat his work like it is; a piece of paper thrown about by an ideological institute, one of which I've happily torn apart in the past on this very topic (with links to many other resources from actual accredited experts, just saying).

Personally, I figure that if we are going to have engineers, doctors, scientists and other trained experts come and work in Canada for potentially the rest of their lives, they should be allowed access to their families, and their families and the immigrants themselves should be integrated into the Canadian way of life. How horrible, we're giving a shit about basic human rights, and the welfare of the family of citizens. Doing otherwise seems cruel, especially for those coming from active war zones or poor living conditions.

"Work for us, and by the way, fuck your family. Welcome to Canada."

[martin14]

housewife housewife:

andyt andyt:

Bringing in people who are a drain on our social and medical systems but have never paid taxes certainly affects all of us. Lots of gnashing of teeth about our aging population and how the young people will have to support us. Why bring in more?

I'm shocked... aren't the one usually trying to get people to embrace their inner bleeding heart lib.

It's his only redeeming quality.

[Lemmy]

Thanos Thanos:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Yes it will. Your xenophobia will make people hate you (and, by association, me) back. But you'll be the one starting it.

So it was Canadian's xenophobia that forced the elder Khadr to join Al Qaeda and become one of the main architects of 9/11? That's a new one, even by the standards of the perverse left that's spent the last sixty years warping everything it could to ensure that criminals could never be held liable for any of their actions.

How did you make that leap? I thought we were talking about Syrian refugees. What the fuck does Kadhr have to do with this? Projecting again, eh? Tsk, tsk.

[Thanos]

Hey, you're the one that first said that hurt feelings create terrorists. Don't try to strawman it onto me please.

[bootlegga]

Thanos Thanos:

Lemmy Lemmy:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Wrong.

They will pay all sorts of taxes from day one, including income and sales taxes - AND they don't qualify for CPP/OAS/welfare or many other social programs for a full decade after they land.

The only thing they will qualify for is health care, which most Canadians deem a right, not a benefit. And it's not like they said they're going to allow in 10,000 90 year old grannies and grandpas - they said parents and grandparents. Certainly some will need to use our health care system, but not all of them and not right away.

They also have to live somewhere, eat something, have a way to go places (bus or car), and will need clothes and all the other things necessary for life in Canada. Even senior citizens can provide economic benefit by providing child care, allowing both parents to work (higher income taxes, more purchasing power for the family, etc).

That means most, if not all of them, will economically contribute to the country and not be the leeches as you automatically presume they will be.

Not to mention that these grandparents have children and grandchildren who will be better citizens when they have their families with them. We want new Canadians to have the support and love of their families because, well, that's what a happy, productive, peaceful life is all about. Such small-mindedness around this whole issue.

There's no way that the Canadian experience wasn't enriched from all the contributions this particular family made to our now-theirs country.



Diversity - is there anything it can't do?

Yeah, yeah.

150 years ago, Canada was told how bad the Irish were when they wanted to come here.

Then before WW1, it was the Chinese, Japanese, East Indians.

During the war, it was the Ukrainians, Germans, and Galicians.

Before WW2, it was the Jews.

After WW2, people complained about the Greeks, Italians and other 'southern' Europeans who came here seeking asylum.

After the Vietnam war, it was the Vietnamese boat people.

Not one of these groups has done anything remotely serious to make us re-consider, aside perhaps from drunken punch-ups on St. Patrick's Day.

Odds are, most Syrians won't either.

Is it possible that there will be some bad apples in the bunch?

Sure, it's possible, but the majority are decent, hard-working people who just want a better life for their kids and themselves. And by allowing in mostly only families, we further mitigate that risk.

The fact is that immigration built Canada into what it is today and too many people seem to have forgotten that.

[Thanos]

None of those other demographics ever did things like helping to plan flying hijacked jetliners into office buildings and kill as many people as possible as part of a perpetual 1300 year-old religious war. This is what frustrates me about talking to liberals. Even after an endless list of sheer murder being perpetrated by Islam, with new atrocities happening in front of everyone every single day, all liberals can do is mouth the same old obsolete responses like they're dealing with a bunch of ignorant WASPs who want to keep some random Jews from getting into an Ivy League university or joining the country club.

[2Cdo]

Thanos Thanos:

None of those other demographics ever did things like helping to plan flying hijacked jetliners into office buildings and kill as many people as possible as part of a perpetual 1300 year-old religious war. This is what frustrates me about talking to liberals. Even after an endless list of sheer murder being perpetrated by Islam, with new atrocities happening in front of everyone every single day, all liberals can do is mouth the same old obsolete responses like they're dealing with a bunch of ignorant WASPs who want to keep some random Jews from getting into an Ivy League university or joining the country club.

That would be a big +5 if you still had your rep on.

I liken it to talking to a wall.

[bootlegga]

Thanos Thanos:

None of those other demographics ever did things like helping to plan flying hijacked jetliners into office buildings and kill as many people as possible...

Guess you've never heard of the Holocaust. Or the combination of Shintoism and Bushido to create an army that practically committed atrocities in its sleep. Or the Troubles in northern Ireland. Or the terrorists who blew up two airplanes going to India from Canada.

Thanos Thanos:

This is what frustrates me about talking to liberals. Even after an endless list of sheer murder being perpetrated by Islam, with new atrocities happening in front of everyone every single day, all liberals can do is mouth the same old obsolete responses like they're dealing with a bunch of ignorant WASPs who want to keep some random Jews from getting into an Ivy League university or joining the country club.

And this "if one [insert nationality here] is a terrorist, then they all must be" argument many conservatives use is what frustrates lots of non-conservatives when we try talking with you.

And since you brought up Khadr, please tell me which skyscraper did he or members of his family fly into? Or where did they set off a car bomb? Or launch a suicide attack?

Oh yeah, none.

Members of that family may have espoused extremism, but so do lots of other Canadians who talk about killing Rachel Notley, bombing abortion clinics or whatever other crazy ass shit goes through their mind. Of course, you'll probably respond that he threw a grenade that killed an American soldier. However I'd argue that that was combat, not a terror attack, as the US attacked the village where he was staying, not the other way around.

Guess what - almost none of the Muslim immigrants you seem to wet your bed over have done anything like that here in Canada either.

The handful of incidents we've actually had have been home-grown Canadians converting to Islam, but don't let that stop you with your blanket generalizations. Even if we had one or two or ten, the fact is that the vast majority of the 1 million+ Muslims in Canada have never done anything like that, nor would they.

Are there terrorists who are also Muslim? Sure as fuck there are - and there are a fair number of them - but having said that, not all Muslims are terrorists. Even if there are 100,000 Muslim terrorists in the world today - and that's a hard number to believe - they still represent a tiny fraction of one percent of Muslims worldwide.

And for the millionth fucking time, we're not taking in single men aged 18-25 (the highest risk group for extremism), we're taking in families with little children and single parents.

But, hey, if believing there is a Muslim terrorist behind every bush helps you sleep better at night, go right ahead.

Me, I'll worry about shit that might actually affect me, like driving to work tomorrow or what I eat or how much exercise I do.

[feduptaxpayer]

Isn't it wonderful? The newbies get to play while the taxpayer gets to pay. The liberals won't be happy until they put the Canadian taxpayer's in the dog house, and the newbies in our houses. And if you voted for them well what did you expect? The lieberals are looking at votes for the next election, and they will probably get it now. Canada is doomed as a once British/European nation. It is quickly starting to look like a third world country. Sad indeed.