[BeaverFever]

I think victims feelings *could* matter, to their extent that they qualify as damage inflicted by the perp. I'm not talking about a victim who just says they're mad as hell and wants the perps head on a stick, I'm talking about victims who have trouble sleeping at night or suffer from depression, anxiety etc. as a result of the crime.

Because that's an injury no different from a broken bone or severed limb and may in fact be harder to treat.

[andyt]

I get your point. But, again, does that mean a vic that doesn't show these things, at least outwardly, the perp should get less of a consequence? Maybe the vic is a "tough" guy who doesn't talk about emotional distress, but is drinking himself into a stupor. Still, with a victim being the direct recipient of the crime, of course the damage done, both physical and psychological, should be taken into account.

I was thinking more of when relatives or such make victim impact statements. I do have the feeling tho, that while judges take these into account, they don't make it the primary factor in sentencing. In our system of justice, we deem the crime to have been against the state, more than the victim. We've moved away from the sorts of codes they have in the middle east say, where the victim has a say over the punishment, can commute a death sentence, etc. Personally I'm glad we've evolved beyond that. It does make the administration of justice a more cold dispassionate affair. Often not as satisfying to the victim, but a much better way to organize society, imo.

[ShepherdsDog]

Personally I'd like to see more community service sentences for those who are deemed to be no threat to the population. This means cleaning streets, parks, garbage along roads and such. This would serve a better purpose than just locking them away with dangerous offenders.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I think victims feelings *could* matter, to their extent that they qualify as damage inflicted by the perp. I'm not talking about a victim who just says they're mad as hell and wants the perps head on a stick, I'm talking about victims who have trouble sleeping at night or suffer from depression, anxiety etc. as a result of the crime.

Because that's an injury no different from a broken bone or severed limb and may in fact be harder to treat.

Beaver, have you been a victim of crime, specifically, violent crime?

If not, how to you know what makes people "feel" better?

As a victim of a violent crime, do you feel better inside knowing that a 5 year sentence is far better than a 10 year sentence for the criminal in terms of recidivism rates? Is that where you want them to find comfort?

Victims of violence and violent crime have long-lasing mental problems that you've finally acknowledged above.

You and the Liberals spent far too much time worrying about the future of the criminal rather than the future of the victims.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I think victims feelings *could* matter, to their extent that they qualify as damage inflicted by the perp. I'm not talking about a victim who just says they're mad as hell and wants the perps head on a stick, I'm talking about victims who have trouble sleeping at night or suffer from depression, anxiety etc. as a result of the crime.

Because that's an injury no different from a broken bone or severed limb and may in fact be harder to treat.

Beaver, have you been a victim of crime, specifically, violent crime?

If not, how to you know what makes people "feel" better?

As a victim of a violent crime, do you feel better inside knowing that a 5 year sentence is far better than a 10 year sentence for the criminal in terms of recidivism rates? Is that where you want them to find comfort?

Victims of violence and violent crime have long-lasing mental problems that you've finally acknowledged above.

You and the Liberals spent far too much time worrying about the future of the criminal rather than the future of the victims.

FFS for the 100th time what you don't understand is that the longer sentences don't improve the future of the victims. They will not recover from depression or anxiety sooner because the perp got 15 years instead of 10 or 12 years instead of 9. Do you have a chart of criminal sentences that are guaranteed to make all victims feel satisfied? Of course not. The victim is never satisfied that's part of being a victim.


If anything the sentence that lessens the likelihood of reoffending would benefit the victim more than one where the perp was more likely to reoffend on release.

I don't know what would make a particular crime victim feel better and unless you happen to know that particular crime victim personally, neither do you. Certainly poiliticans in Ottawa wouldn't either.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Yea, who needs facts, eh?

Lemmy doesn't care about facts or stats. His experience trumps crime statistics.

It appears the economist has wandered a little beyond his depth.

Always have to make it personal, eh? Every time. No facts nor crime statistics were presented. An internet link to an opinion piece were. Nothing remotely resembling facts. But you're right, I'm no legal expert. So let's ask one. What do the actual legal experts say about sentencing, those not "beyond their depths"? Do they advocate for sentencing restraint? Sentencing options? Or do they prefer punishment to the max? Mandatory minimums? TOUGH-ON-CRIME? Come on, smart guy, what do the smart and qualified people in the legal world think?

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Yea, who needs facts, eh?

Lemmy doesn't care about facts or stats. His experience trumps crime statistics.

It appears the economist has wandered a little beyond his depth.

Always have to make it personal, eh? Every time. No facts nor crime statistics were presented. An internet link to an opinion piece were. Nothing remotely resembling facts. But you're right, I'm no legal expert. So let's ask one. What do the actual legal experts say about sentencing, those not "beyond their depths"? Do they advocate for sentencing restraint? Sentencing options? Or do they prefer punishment to the max? Mandatory minimums? TOUGH-ON-CRIME? Come on, smart guy, what do the smart and qualified people in the legal world think?

You shot down the numbers without any basis because you are Lemmy, you don't need to back up your shit.

So, why don't you reverse back, provide some backup beyond your own ego and we'll go from there, ok?

[Lemmy]

So nothing then, eh? Just more ad hominem. Check.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

So nothing then, eh? Just more ad hominem. Check.

I'm not the one who made any claims here, that would be you.

When called out on your claims, you discounted them, as you always do, without anything to back your POV except for your own ego....because you know best.

You're the foremost expert on everything. It's not an attack, it's simply an observation.

[Lemmy]

You're still talking about me instead of the thread topic. Get back to me when you want to discuss the issue instead.