[BartSimpson]

rickc rickc:

I don't know where you served as a reserve officer, but you did interact with officers on a regular basis. You know their mindset. How far would a cop want to push it in this day and age with all the video showing them misbehaving?

Part of what led to my giving up the reserve thing was my immediately-after-the-fact presence at the shooting of an unarmed Mexican man by undercover deputies.

https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/ ... 600161.php

They initially said he charged them and they shot him because he was armed. He wasn't. Then they said they stopped him because he was a known gang member. He wasn't.

tl;dr is that they were plainclothes, aggressive, and armed men who came up on a man who was walking home from the DMV and minding his own business. They scared him and he reacted as a surprised and scared man and they killed him for it.

I was there after the fact and heard the discussion about a knife and asked where it was. I was told to STFU. It got heated and I refused to alter my report to mention the presence of a weapon. To the contrary I mentioned the absence of it.

After that my hours and assignments were cut to nothing.

After seeing a few more incidents of excessive force and absolutely jackassed behavior I hung it up.

So to answer your question I truly believe that some of these guys are just as volatile and just as unpredictable and violent as the pit bulls they like to shoot.

Canada, so far, is not like the US in terms of policing. But if you're in the USA you need to consider every interaction with our police as a potentially life-threatening encounter and you also need to realize that they are not your friend. If a cop walks up to you to engage in friendly banter you need to realize that while the encounter may be friendly it may also be that this cop is on a fishing expedition for someone to arrest.

An out-of-town foreigner in a small town is easy pickings.

Sad to say but too many of these predators will "push it" regardless of the consequences because they truly believe they can get away with it even if there's video.

Eventually these guys will be out of the force as video forces changes in police culture but for now you need to consider every US police encounter as an immediate threat to your life. Even if you cooperate they might still decide to beat you down and or kill you.

Sorry to say it that way but that's how it is.

[rickc]

Its a shame that you gave it up. I can tell from your posts that you are an Oath Keeper. You might not have anything to do with the organizastion on a formal basis, but you are an Oath keeper none the less. This country needs a lot more men like you wearing a badge. Its funny how the left would like to portray the Oath Keepers as a bad thing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

And as far as I know, the cops HAVE to have a reason to pull you over,
unless it's a check for drunk drivers, where they stop everyone.

That's very true. But you don't always know the reason they are pulling you over. They might be looking for a vehicle, and yours matches the description. Just because you've done nothing wrong doesn't mean they don't have a valid reason to pull you over.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

In all too many jurisdictions you exercise your rights at your own peril.

And like the article says, it's best to comply and be polite. Rights violations charges can come later, but only if you are still alive.

[Yogi]

If a Cop pulls you over, be polite. If he is having a good day you will likely keep that going and reap the benefits. If he is having a bad day some friendly banter can help to change his/her mood for the better. You both win. To do otherwise you lose!

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

martin14 martin14:

And as far as I know, the cops HAVE to have a reason to pull you over,
unless it's a check for drunk drivers, where they stop everyone.

That's very true. But you don't always know the reason they are pulling you over. They might be looking for a vehicle, and yours matches the description.

I got to enjoy that experience many moons ago. My buddy had an old, blue Chevy van. The cops pulled us over because they were looking for 3 suspects in a blue Chevy van and we apparently were a close match for the description. The cop on the driver's side was polite and we gladly showed him our IDs. Of course that may have been due, in part, to his partners stance on the passenger side with his hand on his gun ready to draw at a moments notice.

[DrCaleb]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

martin14 martin14:

And as far as I know, the cops HAVE to have a reason to pull you over,
unless it's a check for drunk drivers, where they stop everyone.

That's very true. But you don't always know the reason they are pulling you over. They might be looking for a vehicle, and yours matches the description.

I got to enjoy that experience many moons ago. My buddy had an old, blue Chevy van. The cops pulled us over because they were looking for 3 suspects in a blue Chevy van and we apparently were a close match for the description. The cop on the driver's side was polite and we gladly showed him our IDs. Of course that may have been due, in part, to his partners stance on the passenger side with his hand on his gun ready to draw at a moments notice.

Well, don't write things on the side!

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

That's very true. But you don't always know the reason they are pulling you over. They might be looking for a vehicle, and yours matches the description.

I got to enjoy that experience many moons ago. My buddy had an old, blue Chevy van. The cops pulled us over because they were looking for 3 suspects in a blue Chevy van and we apparently were a close match for the description. The cop on the driver's side was polite and we gladly showed him our IDs. Of course that may have been due, in part, to his partners stance on the passenger side with his hand on his gun ready to draw at a moments notice.

Well, don't write things on the side!

Its' ok, it was a window van.

[BartSimpson]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

I got to enjoy that experience many moons ago. My buddy had an old, blue Chevy van. The cops pulled us over because they were looking for 3 suspects in a blue Chevy van and we apparently were a close match for the description. The cop on the driver's side was polite and we gladly showed him our IDs. Of course that may have been due, in part, to his partners stance on the passenger side with his hand on his gun ready to draw at a moments notice.

In that circumstance had you or your friend done pretty much anything the cops didn't like they could have killed you both and said that they were "in fear for their lives" because your van looked like someone else's.

And the shoot would have been ruled as justified just the same as the two truck drivers who were shot at by police in the aftermath of the Dorner rampage in LA were also 'justified' shoots.

In Sacramento one morning I was heading out to work and the police were on the lookout for a Toyota Camry that matched the general description of my Volvo so I took the bus. Why invite a problem when I just want to get to work, eh?

[OnTheIce]

uwish uwish:

So for the letter of the law perspective, NO they can't stop you whenever,

You're spreading wrong information.

Police can stop you at any time just to confirm you have the proper documentation. Licences, ownership and insurance. Driving is a privilege that comes with a lot of rules and regulations.

They do not need reasonable grounds to pull you over.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

I got to enjoy that experience many moons ago. My buddy had an old, blue Chevy van. The cops pulled us over because they were looking for 3 suspects in a blue Chevy van and we apparently were a close match for the description. The cop on the driver's side was polite and we gladly showed him our IDs. Of course that may have been due, in part, to his partners stance on the passenger side with his hand on his gun ready to draw at a moments notice.

In that circumstance had you or your friend done pretty much anything the cops didn't like they could have killed you both and said that they were "in fear for their lives" because your van looked like someone else's.

And the shoot would have been ruled as justified just the same as the two truck drivers who were shot at by police in the aftermath of the Dorner rampage in LA were also 'justified' shoots.

In Sacramento one morning I was heading out to work and the police were on the lookout for a Toyota Camry that matched the general description of my Volvo so I took the bus. Why invite a problem when I just want to get to work, eh?

Situations in the US don't translate well to Canada with your rabid gun culture.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Police can stop you at any time just to confirm you have the proper documentation. Licences, ownership and insurance. Driving is a privilege that comes with a lot of rules and regulations.

They do not need reasonable grounds to pull you over.

True. But a court can later rule the stop as unreasonable or as 'profiling' and dismiss any charges that came about because of the stop.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Situations in the US don't translate well to Canada with your rabid gun culture.

Whatever.

When Obama came into office only one state, Vermont, allowed 'Constitutional carry' - meaning no permit was required for open or concealed carry. There are now five such states.

There were also only 26 states that had 'shall issue' carry permit rules. There are now fifty inclusive of the Constitutional carry states.

With that in mind the police need to be more respectful of law abiding citizens who exercise their rights because that's their job. If they can't handle it then they need to find another line of work.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Police can stop you at any time just to confirm you have the proper documentation. Licences, ownership and insurance. Driving is a privilege that comes with a lot of rules and regulations.

They do not need reasonable grounds to pull you over.

True. But a court can later rule the stop as unreasonable or as 'profiling' and dismiss any charges that came about because of the stop.

But you have to live long enough to go to court. Like the woman who started this whole conversation; was her life worth putting out her cigarette for? Yea, the cop didn't have the right to ask her to, but then again he did have the right to arrest her for that traffic violation.

In Canada, police can pull you over for whatever reason, but they don't have the right to search your car without probable cause. Now, the likelihood is that you won't be arrested or killed by a Canadian cop for refusing an illegal request - but is it worth the hassle if they have a burr up their ass that day? The article give a list of what's acceptable and what's not. I'd just be polite and stick to what's acceptable. That way, everyone goes home.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But you have to live long enough to go to court. Like the woman who started this whole conversation; was her life worth putting out her cigarette for? Yea, the cop didn't have the right to ask her to, but then again he did have the right to arrest her for that traffic violation.

In Canada, police can pull you over for whatever reason, but they don't have the right to search your car without probable cause. Now, the likelihood is that you won't be arrested or killed by a Canadian cop for refusing an illegal request - but is it worth the hassle if they have a burr up their ass that day? The article give a list of what's acceptable and what's not. I'd just be polite and stick to what's acceptable. That way, everyone goes home.

I don't believe he has the right to arrest her for that traffic violation. Stop her and cite her is about it, assuming everything else is in order.

It's not so much if you'll be killed in Canada. But you may get a beating for "resisting arrest" and spend time in jail. Not really worth it to have to hire a lawyer and go to court to have the charges tossed - what do you get out of that? Unless it's a very egregious situation, the cop won't face any consequences.

Just be professional, and unless the cop really steps over the line, comply with what he says. S/he has the power in the situation, and can make up all sorts of bullshit to cover their ass if necessary.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

I actually had one cop issue me a ticket even though she knew she was in the wrong. Her "reasoning" was that she'd already called it in. She was cool though, when she handed me the ticket she had intentionally made an error, because no cop could possibly screw up a person's license plate number that badly without realizing it. Out of the 7 alpha-numeric characters on my plate, only one matched up to the ticket