[Alta_redneck]

The 250,000 spectators that attend 10 nights of racing will decide what happens, not the bleeding hearts of the world.

[BeaverFever]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

The 250,000 spectators that attend 10 nights of racing will decide what happens, not the bleeding hearts of the world.

Remind me in which part of the bible said that?


Seriously your post is Spoken like a true villain. Something Mr. Burns would say.

Similar comments were made about slavery and child labour.

[Canadian_Mind]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Sorry doesn't cut it. You can't justify needless pain and suffering and any preceding kind treatment won't cancel it out. Would you agree to such a gruesome fate so long as you got pampered before hand?

Also, animals have no concept of "superstardom" ....it means nothing to them. You think they crave celebrity? You think they worry whether they have it as good or better than other animals?

Slavery is wrong even when the Master is kind; similarly animal suffering for the sake of entertainment is also wrong even when they're otherwise well treated.

fuck yea. I already ran the gauntlet once for much less. we all die eventually. if it means 1% sucks severly while the other 99% is awesome, I'm all for it.

the point I was getting at is it isn't about them thinking they are superstars. it's about the quality of care and quality of life they receive.

you say that like chuckwagons is about making animals suffer. it isn't. that's fucking deluded. how could you think that way?

[BeaverFever]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

you say that like chuckwagons is about making animals suffer. it isn't. that's fucking deluded. how could you think that way?

Come on man don't play dumb. Every year several horses die because the sport is inherently dangerous. Every year. It's not a surprise or a debated point. So what they're not deliberately trying to hurt them...they know the inevitable outcome. It's wilful and wreckless endangerment.

Would be ok to try and shoot an apple of a child's head and sY " don't worry because I'm not 'trying' to hurt him!"

And the animal didn't sign up for this, it's not a consenting participant.

What surprises me is that people feel sorry for the wagon drivers when they get hurt and fret over concussions in pro sports, despite the fact that they're consenting adults who know the risks and truely do get treated like superstars

[Alta_redneck]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

The 250,000 spectators that attend 10 nights of racing will decide what happens, not the bleeding hearts of the world.

Remind me in which part of the bible said that?


Seriously your post is Spoken like a true villain. Something Mr. Burns would say.

Similar comments were made about slavery and child labour.

It must suck to live such a sterile life in the concert jungle.

As the old saying goes, you can hook a horse up to a wagon, but you can't make him pull it. They either want to or they don't, its completely up to the horse it's just that easy.

[BeaverFever]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

The 250,000 spectators that attend 10 nights of racing will decide what happens, not the bleeding hearts of the world.

Remind me in which part of the bible said that?


Seriously your post is Spoken like a true villain. Something Mr. Burns would say.

Similar comments were made about slavery and child labour.

It must suck to live such a sterile life in the concert jungle.

As the old saying goes, you can hook a horse up to a wagon, but you can't make him pull it. They either want to or they don't, its completely up to the horse it's just that easy.

Yeah lots of great music here in the 'concert jungle' lol

But you see it's not completely up to the horse. If it was, you wouldn't be hooking a wagon to him in the first place.

These animals aren't capable of exercising free will, it's just that easy.

[Alta_redneck]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

The 250,000 spectators that attend 10 nights of racing will decide what happens, not the bleeding hearts of the world.

It must suck to live such a sterile life in the concrete jungle.

As the old saying goes, you can hook a horse up to a wagon, but you can't make him pull it. They either want to or they don't, its completely up to the horse it's just that easy.

Yeah lots of great music here in the 'concert jungle' lol

But you see it's not completely up to the horse. If it was, you wouldn't be hooking a wagon to him in the first place.

These animals aren't capable of exercising free will, it's just that easy.

Yea your done.

[Strutz]

It's very sad that this many horses have already died in this years' Stampede. I hope there are not any more before this event ends.

I get that this annual event is very important to Calgary and these events are very important to those who participate. But for me it's no different from other events/attractions where people pay big money to essentially be entertained by animals. Aquariums, zoos, horse/dog racing and rodeos. All focus on the well-being of the creatures being first priority but if the creature cannot fulfill that role (voluntarily or more often involuntary) then... well they are "taken care of".

This type of entertainment is simply not for me. I respect though that others enjoy it and as long as these events/attractions are legal then there is not much I can say.

I remember going to a rodeo when I was 11 or so. I was totally horse crazy as a kid an thought going to a rodeo would be the coolest thing ever. It wasn't. That has stuck with me.

[OnTheIce]

I've never been a fan of using animals for entertainment. This event strikes be as being one of those archaic events that Calgary feels the need to hang onto. It's not fun to watch a race when a bunch of animals crash and end up dead.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Sorry doesn't cut it. You can't justify needless pain and suffering and any preceding kind treatment won't cancel it out. Would you agree to such a gruesome fate so long as you got pampered before hand?

Also, animals have no concept of "superstardom" ....it means nothing to them. You think they crave celebrity? You think they worry whether they have it as good or better than other animals?

Slavery is wrong even when the Master is kind; similarly animal suffering for the sake of entertainment is also wrong even when they're otherwise well treated.

I can tell you've never worked with horses. Certain breeds live to serve. Certain breeds are happiest when pulling a heavily loaded wagon, or a huge stump out of the ground, or jumping fences and ponds, or racing around a track. They get excited when you harness them up and hook them to heavy loads, or put on their riding saddle.

And being an animal that lives in groups, they crave attention. That's one of the ways to 'break' a horse, it to starve it of attention so that it craves it from humans. The roar of thousands in a stadium feeds that desire; they most certainly understand 'superstardom'.

I'm not saying that mistreating animals isn't wrong, I'm saying these animals aren't mistreated. They are doing what they love to do, and unfortunate accidents happen. The problem is that all these injuries are manageable - for any other animal. But for horses, they have a temperament that won't allow them to stand still or lie down for long periods and let the injury heal. So they must be euthanized rather than suffer a slow death because of their nature.

[BeaverFever]

Sorry Dr C. You can't use anthropomorphic arguments here. As I said before animals have no free will. They didn't choose to race wagons and even if they could, any supposed joy they might get from it doesn't automatically absolve you from causing the suffering and grisly death. My guess is that even if the horse enjoys pulling wagons, he probably doesn't enjoy racing around a crowdedness track with a bunch of others horses and wagons danger close while getting whipped. And he certainly doesn't enjoy crashing.

Also let's not pretend that chuck wagon races are are done as charity to keep certain breeds of horses from getting depressed. Its entertainment and business.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Sorry Dr C. You can't use anthropomorphic arguments here.

Yes, I can. Animals must have emotions, otherwise your own arguments fail! Anthropomorphizing a car would be an invalid argument, but an emotional creature can't be anthropomorphized.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

As I said before animals have no free will.

False assumption. Animals have all sorts of free will even after we domesticate them. Otherwise the issue of "Pit Bulls" would never occur.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

They didn't choose to race wagons and even if they could, any supposed joy they might get from it doesn't automatically absolve you from causing the suffering and grisly death.

I never said it did, but the suffering and dieing isn't the point. There are many horses at the stampede this week who will not suffer and die, but enjoy the thrill of the races as much as the crowd, and then go home safely. Accidents happen.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

My guess is that even if the horse enjoys pulling wagons, he probably doesn't enjoy racing around a crowdedness track with a bunch of others horses and wagons danger close while getting whipped.

False assumption. Like I said, you have no experience with horses. Competition is what they crave, and racing down the track looking the next horse in the eyes and beating it is what they love.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

And he certainly doesn't enjoy crashing.

No one does.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Also let's not pretend that chuck wagon races are are done as charity to keep certain breeds of horses from getting depressed. Its entertainment and business.

Who was pretending otherwise?

[andyt]

Children enjoy all sorts of activities too. We don't let them go and play on the freeway. I have nothing against using animals for our entertainment, as long as the risks of harm are reasonable. The risks are not reasonable in chuck wagon racing.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Children enjoy all sorts of activities too. We don't let them go and play on the freeway. I have nothing against using animals for our entertainment, as long as the risks of harm are reasonable. The risks are not reasonable in chuck wagon racing.

I disagree with you therefore you are NWORNG!.

[2Cdo]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

Children enjoy all sorts of activities too. We don't let them go and play on the freeway. I have nothing against using animals for our entertainment, as long as the risks of harm are reasonable. The risks are not reasonable in chuck wagon racing.

I disagree with you therefore you are NWORNG!.