[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

martin14 martin14:

It's much more politics than economics these days.

If it was economics, Greece would have been booted years ago.

You're right, it's politics, but economics is the only thing keeping Greece in. Why would the French and Germans make their wares less competitive in Greece?

If it's only about Greece, why would Germany pour so much money into it? Do they really get that much profit out of Greece selling their wares that is makes propping them up worth it? I think it's more about not starting a general EU exit.

Who said it was only about Greece? It's closer to being only about Germany since they're the exporter. Germany is the one who benefits from free access to the rest of Europe's markets. So it's they who'd suffer the most by Greece (or whomever else) leaving.

[andyt]

Again, do the profits from exporting to Greece (a country with no money) exceed the subsidies that Germany gives Greece? Seems like an expensive way of propping up German industry, probably more efficient to just give the money directly to their industries instead.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Again, do the profits from exporting to Greece (a country with no money) exceed the subsidies that Germany gives Greece? Seems like an expensive way of propping up German industry, probably more efficient to just give the money directly to their industries instead.

Yeah, but subsidization = bad, while subjugation is just fine.

[martin14]

stratos stratos:

If Greece and the UK leave the EU would that start a mass exodus by other nations?

No.

If Greece leaves in a mess, the new drachma will drop to zero overnight.

Other countries will see this, won't want it, and will make sure they stay in.


Even a controlled exit will be a short term disaster for the Greek economy, but they are too retarded to see it.

Let's all remember Ireland also has a series of bailouts, and they didn't at all about the conditions, they just took it.

The Greeks have done nothing but whine and complain about everything,
like a bunch of spoiled brats.



The UK won't leave.

The Yes side will overspend the No by a factor of 3 to 1 at least.

Propaganda will come out by the truckload from the EU, trying to scare the people into staying.

And they will.

It's already over, and it hasn't even started.

Lemmy Lemmy:

You're right, it's politics, but economics is the only thing keeping Greece in. Why would the French and Germans make their wares less competitive in Greece?

A market of 10 million people is relatively zero, and it's not like Greece will stop all economic
activity with the EU. They get more out than they put in.

There quiet a few products with printed languages only Italian and Greek, meaning the products
are being sold only in those two countries.

3rd rate shit.

They already sacrifice; not on price but quality.

[martin14]

Lemmy Lemmy:

andyt andyt:

Again, do the profits from exporting to Greece (a country with no money) exceed the subsidies that Germany gives Greece? Seems like an expensive way of propping up German industry, probably more efficient to just give the money directly to their industries instead.

Yeah, but subsidization = bad, while subjugation is just fine.

No one forced the Greeks to join the Euro. In fact they lied through their teeth to get in.

And then kept spending like drunk sailors.. 16% of GDP goes to pensions.


This has been building for decades.

[Lemmy]

martin14 martin14:

A market of 10 million people is relatively zero, and it's not like Greece will stop all economic activity with the EU. They get more out than they put in.

10 million isn't "relatively zero". Name me a business that wouldn't do all it could to add 10 million new customers. But you're right, Greece gets more "out of it". The smaller country always has more to gain than the larger one in a trade deal. But Greece getting more doesn't mean that Germany loses. If we make a deal where I make $100 and you make $10, that's still a deal we BOTH win on. And that's what the EU is.

martin14 martin14:

There quiet a few products with printed languages only Italian and Greek, meaning the products
are being sold only in those two countries.

3rd rate shit.

They already sacrifice; not on price but quality.

Not much different from Canadians buying cheap Chinese shit (and China prints English/French labels for Canada. That doesn't mean those products are sold only in Canada, it just means they produce country-specific labels and packaging.)

[martin14]

Lemmy Lemmy:

martin14 martin14:

A market of 10 million people is relatively zero, and it's not like Greece will stop all economic activity with the EU. They get more out than they put in.

10 million isn't "relatively zero". Name me a business that wouldn't do all it could to add 10 million new customers. But you're right, Greece gets more "out of it". The smaller country always has more to gain than the larger one in a trade deal. But Greece getting more doesn't mean that Germany loses. If we make a deal where I make $100 and you make $10, that's still a deal we BOTH win on. And that's what the EU is.

martin14 martin14:

There quiet a few products with printed languages only Italian and Greek, meaning the products
are being sold only in those two countries.

3rd rate shit.

They already sacrifice; not on price but quality.

Not much different from Canadians buying cheap Chinese shit (and China prints English/French labels for Canada. That doesn't mean those products are sold only in Canada, it just means they produce country-specific labels and packaging.)

The EU is not win win.

Ask Germany, Holland, Denmark.


And I was not speaking about labels, only the original packaging.
Which means they are only sold in Italy/Greece.

Normal EU packaging has 5 -6 languages on it, or a label for the 6 - 7 Central languages.

[Lemmy]

martin14 martin14:

The EU is not win win. Ask Germany, Holland, Denmark.

You think Germany, Holland and Denmark haven't gained from being part of the EU? The EU allowed the Germans to achieve all of their World War II goals, without the murder, craziness and associated costs. But Germany didn't "win"?

martin14 martin14:

And I was not speaking about labels, only the original packaging.
Which means they are only sold in Italy/Greece.

Or it means they make a different original packaging or label or whatever the hell else you want to call it to sell it elsewhere.

[martin14]

Lemmy Lemmy:

martin14 martin14:

The EU is not win win. Ask Germany, Holland, Denmark.

You think Germany, Holland and Denmark haven't gained from being part of the EU? The EU allowed the Germans to achieve all of their World War II goals, without the murder, craziness and associated costs. But Germany didn't "win"?

I'll Brenda handle this, but you are wrong as usual.

Lemmy Lemmy:

martin14 martin14:

And I was not speaking about labels, only the original packaging.
Which means they are only sold in Italy/Greece.

Or it means they make a different original packaging or label or whatever the hell else you want to call it to sell it elsewhere.

Now you want to whine about original packing or labels, there is a difference you know.

And there is also a reason they package ONLY for the 2 most screwed up economies in the EU,

but it's beyond you as to why that is.

[Lemmy]

Ahh, so that's the route you want to go with this, eh? Big surprise.

[PluggyRug]

Here's breakdown on how much each country contributes and gets back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... -know.html

[andyt]

That's just the Eu budget. Germany wins by having a captive market for it's high quality, high priced stuff. Germany is the clear winner from the EU. I just don't know at what point it stops becoming worth it to subsidize your customers.