[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I don't see where anyone is saying he should receive leniency, just observation on Cause and Effect, and if you want to reduce the Effect then you should address the Cause.

If seeing your mother raped turned everyone into a criminal then 90% of Germany would have been behind bars in the 1960's and yes, in some ways you are a creature of your environment but, in cases like this it's either a mental health issue or a conscious decision that makes people like him do what they do.

[andyt]

Just keep walking the same rut, huh? The point is that if we had intervened with this family when they really needed it, maybe Julie Paskall would still be alive, other women would not have been assaulted, and this guy lived an ordinary life. But I know, it's more fun to just call for blood and come up with inane statements like not everybody that sees their mother raped does this. Who knows, maybe he would have gone down this road anyway. What's wrong with putting more effort on the preventative end and maybe save some lives?

How about, now that he's got his sentence, we at least push for him getting lots of chances for rehabilitation in prison, and some support when he gets out, so that he doesn't do it again. I know it's more fun to call for his execution, but how about dealing with what is? Or is it just too much fun, if he does do this again, to howl for blood again?

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

who jumps out an 11th story window to escape them, becoming permanently disabled, will do that to you. As will the family not receiving any support after that incident.

Bullshit.

Prove it.

Prove to us it was the 11th story, and that they got no help after.

Full of it as usual.

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

If seeing your mother raped turned everyone into a criminal

Stop dealing in absolutes like a Sith. Your post suggests you think that something can't possibly have an effect on ANYONE unless it has that same effect on EVERYONE. Not everyone exposed to peanuts will die from them, doesn't mean peanuts don't harm people because but some people will die from them.

And don't give me the 'crime is a crime is a crime' spiel because I don't believe for one second that you wouldn't show leniency to a soldier suffering from PTSD who killed an innocent, or for a father who killed the man who raped his child.

[andyt]

Just to be clear, I don't want to show leniency toward this guy. He's a danger to society and needs to be locked up. He's no less a danger because he's also a victim. But I want us to put in the effort required that results in fewer of these guys being created, and I want him to get help in prison so he's not a danger when he gets out.

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

andyt andyt:

who jumps out an 11th story window to escape them, becoming permanently disabled, will do that to you. As will the family not receiving any support after that incident.

Bullshit.

Prove it.

Prove to us it was the 11th story, and that they got no help after.

Full of it as usual.

What a farking idiot, as if the height of the window is the crux here. So what, she jumps from the 11th story, he deserves sympathy, but if she jumped from a 10th story window, "take it like a man." I really wonder about your thought processes.

But OK:

$1:

His lawyer said Gopaul was traumatized at age seven when his mother jumped from an 11th-storey window to escape a rape by three men in an Ottawa apartment building.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/05/22 ... 22850.html

[BRAH]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So, once again the perpetrator is actually be the victim here.

But allow me propose this question. Since there have literally been thousands of people throughout history who have watched their mothers get raped and or murdered but didn't go out and start committing crimes and murdering people like this asshole did, why is he so special?

People make choices, and this guy made a conscious decision to become a criminal which led to him becoming a murdered and any apologist tripe about how rough his childhood was is just and excuse to explain away a ridiculously lenient sentence that's about 12 years to fucking short.

That's The Left's logic.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Just keep walking the same rut, huh? The point is that if we had intervened with this family when they really needed it, maybe Julie Paskall would still be alive, other women would not have been assaulted, and this guy lived an ordinary life. But I know, it's more fun to just call for blood and come up with inane statements like not everybody that sees their mother raped does this. Who knows, maybe he would have gone down this road anyway. What's wrong with putting more effort on the preventative end and maybe save some lives?

How about, now that he's got his sentence, we at least push for him getting lots of chances for rehabilitation in prison, and some support when he gets out, so that he doesn't do it again. I know it's more fun to call for his execution, but how about dealing with what is? Or is it just too much fun, if he does do this again, to howl for blood again?

Speaking of ruts how's the one you criminal apologists remain in? I'm sure had we given his family complete social assistance from cradle to grave none of this would have happened or, had we done the same for the families of the men who raped his mother none of this would have happened.

You could go on ad nauseum about how poverty and trauma cause and perpetuates crime all the way back to the dawn of man. But like the trauma excuse people use, the giving social of assistance to everyone who wants or needs it to keep them from becoming criminals discounts the fact that it's a definite minority of people from poor families who become criminals and kill people. A fact you social engineering apologists keep avoiding.

So, I hate to break this to you. Some people are born assholes and you can make all the excuses you want about upbringing and traumatic experiences but since almost every person is mentally capable of knowing what's right and what's wrong it makes Mr. Gopauls excuses nothing more than a lawyers ploy to get him a reduced sentence. He may not have intended to kill Julie Paskall but he did choose to become a criminal an action which directly led to her death.

Now with that being said hopefully he gets the help he needs in prison but I seriously doubt he'll come out he other end a better person. Because if his actions are a direct result of past poverty and trauma there's very little chance the psychiatric help will even make a dent on his mental makeup. Unless of course, at some point that help gets him to change his mind about living a life of crime which, would mean that his criminal lifestyle was really a choice and not a result of his previous life, which is what I've said all along.

[andyt]

We probably did give his family social assistance, since his mother was permanently disabled after jumping out of that 11th story window. If you think that giving somebody welfare after a trauma like that, I don't know about you.

People noticed a distinct change in him after the incident with his mother. You still want go with he was born this way? Maybe read up on what trauma and deprivation does to a developing brain.

He may actually come out a better person. People seemed to believe that his remorse was genuine, and he has said he hopes to avail himself of any programs offered to him in prison. He has no ulterior motive to say this, since his sentence was already decided.

As for his lifestyle being a choice, it is. Influenced strongly by events in his life, what he learned about the world. If he gets help, he may find his way to making a different choice, based on the new learning he's done.

I would actually declare this guy a habitual criminal. That means he's not incarcerated indefinitely, but is on parole when he's out, he's monitored.

But better than all that would be if we put more resources in helping struggling families to not create people like this. It sure would take more than "social assistance." Not only would it save lives, but as a bonus it would actually save money as well.