[Jabberwalker]

And, BTW, earthworms are an invasive species.

So are we, man.

So are we.

[Freakinoldguy]

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

$1:

In making the announcement, Premier Christy Clark said the Site C Clean Energy Project will provide B.C. residents with a reliable source of power for the next 100 years for the least cost to the taxpayer.

I hope that's the biggest lie I have to listen to today!
BC isn't out of power. It's friggin California sucking it back, and it's the BC tax payers that foot the bill at $12+/unit, while the power suckers pay their locked in $4/unit.
And, it isn't just the natives opposed to Site C. VERY few people in the north peace aren't opposed.
Love the way they put the bullshit spin on this project.

Nope the biggest lie you'll have to listen to today is the BC Lieberals telling you the dam is only going to cost 7.6 billion yet telling the Bloomberg News Service that it'll really cost 8.5 billion.
http://www.canada.com/news/Vaughn+Palme ... story.html


Or, better yet that the energy will be going to BC residents when if what some opponents and pundits claim it'll be going to the LNG industry and providing no relief for the people of BC like the walking photo op claims.

[Jabberwalker]

the energy will be going to BC residents

If they happen to be living in the Greater Los Angeles region.

[andyt]

herbie herbie:

Fuck it. Build it.
The issue should be why the cost has got so goddam outrageous.
Then start looking at geothermal power for fucks sakes.

They have supposedly looked at all the options including geothermal. What they say is the geothermal people are nowhere up and ready to go, don't even know where the good spots are. Wind and solar are intermittent, and with wind farms and solar arrays, people will start winging about the birdies. No matter what the project, the FN"s will complain that it is built on sacred ground or interferes with their traditional life style.

The one that seems to come in at lowest cost with proven technology is natural gas. You can also build the generating plants close the where the electricity is needed, and so have much lower transmission losses. But natural gas - people will light their hair on fire. Basically let's just shut BC down - no more projects of any kind.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

$1:

In making the announcement, Premier Christy Clark said the Site C Clean Energy Project will provide B.C. residents with a reliable source of power for the next 100 years for the least cost to the taxpayer.

I hope that's the biggest lie I have to listen to today!
BC isn't out of power. It's friggin California sucking it back, and it's the BC tax payers that foot the bill at $12+/unit, while the power suckers pay their locked in $4/unit.
And, it isn't just the natives opposed to Site C. VERY few people in the north peace aren't opposed.
Love the way they put the bullshit spin on this project.

Nope the biggest lie you'll have to listen to today is the BC Lieberals telling you the dam is only going to cost 7.6 billion yet telling the Bloomberg News Service that it'll really cost 8.5 billion.
http://www.canada.com/news/Vaughn+Palme ... story.html


Or, better yet that the energy will be going to BC residents when if what some opponents and pundits claim it'll be going to the LNG industry and providing no relief for the people of BC like the walking photo op claims.

The LNG industry if they ever get going, would need much more power than site C can provide. They'll have to use NG to power the production of LNG.

Supposedly tho, it's not clear that we need this extra power in BC. But, with the long lead time of these dams, maybe it's better to build it now. As I said previously, under Wacky Bennett BC boomed when we built the dams and roads, and Provincialized Hydro, Gas, Ferries and Railways. (Wasn't BC Tel a govt crop at one time too?) Too bad, we need a guy like him running the show these days. He knew what to leave to the free market, and what was better run by the government.

[wildrosegirl]

andyt andyt:

The LNG industry if they ever get going, would need much more power than site C can provide. They'll have to use NG to power the production of LNG.

The main dam could already produce more power than the province will ever need if they ran it at full capacity. It isn't even close.
Site C isn't for us.

[wildrosegirl]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

$1:

In making the announcement, Premier Christy Clark said the Site C Clean Energy Project will provide B.C. residents with a reliable source of power for the next 100 years for the least cost to the taxpayer.

I hope that's the biggest lie I have to listen to today!
BC isn't out of power. It's friggin California sucking it back, and it's the BC tax payers that foot the bill at $12+/unit, while the power suckers pay their locked in $4/unit.
And, it isn't just the natives opposed to Site C. VERY few people in the north peace aren't opposed.
Love the way they put the bullshit spin on this project.

Nope the biggest lie you'll have to listen to today is the BC Lieberals telling you the dam is only going to cost 7.6 billion yet telling the Bloomberg News Service that it'll really cost 8.5 billion.
http://www.canada.com/news/Vaughn+Palme ... story.html


Or, better yet that the energy will be going to BC residents when if what some opponents and pundits claim it'll be going to the LNG industry and providing no relief for the people of BC like the walking photo op claims.

Nice crystal ball ya got there. I'm pretty sure it'll be closer to 12.5B when all's said and done though.

[herbie]

It'll fuck up fewer people than any other solution, no emissions and they'll steamroller any opposition anyways.
Like jj says it'll be interesting to see if they drown the trees, it will probably be up and running faster than they can push logging permits through BC Forestry anyway, and they're all old fucking Socreds who don't give a shit.
AFAIK the geothermal is simple bullshit too, I've seen the hotspot maps, they're just finding a way to milk the grants and the investor market for 50 years first like Ballard Power and their fuel cells.
And besides of which we could crack the lake water into hydrogen with any unused power and wait for the opposition to rally against releasing oxygen into the air!

[andyt]

Not logging is insane and releases tons of methane, a potent greenhouse gas. Ie it gives ammunition to the anti-dam greenies. Just log the fucker, give the trees away if you have to - let the locals go in there and haul them out as a bit of compensation for their loss.

I've been for site C for 30 years. Makes sense for us to be a electricity superpower - use cheap electricity to get industry to come here.

[rickc]

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

$1:

In making the announcement, Premier Christy Clark said the Site C Clean Energy Project will provide B.C. residents with a reliable source of power for the next 100 years for the least cost to the taxpayer.

I hope that's the biggest lie I have to listen to today!
BC isn't out of power. It's friggin California sucking it back, and it's the BC tax payers that foot the bill at $12+/unit, while the power suckers pay their locked in $4/unit.
And, it isn't just the natives opposed to Site C. VERY few people in the north peace aren't opposed.
Love the way they put the bullshit spin on this project.

So California is sucking all the power out of BC at discount rates fleecing the poor BC rate payers in the process eh? I call bullshit!
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/statistics ... Trade.aspx
You see the fact of the matter is BC is a net IMPORTER of American power. That link from BC Stats shows the international exports vs the international imports for the years 1998-2013. International would be the U.S. From 2001 to 2013 we can see that BC was an importer of power from the states in 8 out of the last 13 years. Your scenario about the States siphoning off BC power is a crock of shit.

http://bcpiac.com/power-surge-the-comin ... customers/
Here is a good link about the real reasons for the rising cost of power in BC. The fact that they have to pay private power companies in BC twice the going rate of BC Hydro does not help. They even cover how BC buying power from California in the winter when power cost in California is low, and selling power to California in the summer when the prices are high has generated hundreds of millions of dollars for BC Hydro. You state that California is getting some sweetheart deal with locked in rates. Prove it! Give us a government source showing that California is paying a lower rate than BC ratepayers.
https://www.leg.bc.ca/39th2nd/1st_read/gov17-1.htm
That is the clean energy act of 2010. I see no special provisions for California. As far as the $750 million settlement goes, if Powerex was innocent of the charges, then why did they settle out of court? Why were they the 48th company to settle out of court? 48 companies who have full-time lawyers on the payroll chose to settle rather than have their day in court, and we are supposed to believe they are innocent?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-e ... story.html
California was saying that Powerex was buying the power from California and then reselling it back to California at much higher rates. Thats price manipulation. A charge they chose not to fight.I love how according to you that on one hand BC Hydro are are a bunch of thieves and liars when they are dealing with the ratepayers of BC, but suddenly they are as pure as the driven snow when they are dealing with the ratepayers of California. You can't have it both ways.

[Xort]

The electrical generation of BC is complicated by a few factors.

As rickc said, the locked in wildly above market prices paid by BC Hydro to small time high cost private operators is driving up the price. It's the story of 'green' generators all over the world.

The trades made by BC to sell power to the US may come out as a net import while still having a far lower overall cost. Hydro is great in that it can meet instant demand and then shut off to a trickle when it's not needed. Coal plants and Gen II nuclear don't have that ability, so they are stuck using natural gas and hydro electric to fill the instant grid demand.

This lets a hydro producer sell power when the price is high, then buy from the people they were selling to, when the price is low save the water (fuel) for later.

The deregulation of the CA electrical industry lead to some truly insane prices which everyone took advantage of. If BC Hydro's distribution branch was sued even while following the rules, it's not like they didn't earn wildly more on the huge shock prices. At best it's like getting $100 extra and giving $60 back. You're still $40 ahead even if you should be $100.

The BC government has been using the financing of the dams to play fiscal games for decades, in the end hydro electric is the cheapest type of electrical generation with the most positive characteristics.

As a supporter for nuclear power I will admit it's even better than the best nuclear can offer.

Good job on finally building this project it's overdue.