[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Also was fairly common throughout history, including some of those situations you mention where a church was converted to a mosque

Sure, like that always happened peacefully.

[martin14]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

He's putting forward the notion of how incongruous it is that an official Islamic presence should be invited into a Christian church in the nation's capital on the centennial of a day the Caliphate lined the road with raped and murdered, then crucified Armenian girls. There's a pic. They looked naked on their crosses. Kind of horrifying.

I'll guarantee NO ONE in the US gov't would remember such a date.

And if they did, the PC brigade would hush it up PDQ.

[GreenTiger]

I'm not sure how I feel about an Islamic service in National Cathedral, but once approved and organized and underway you DO NOT interrupt ANY service there.

[Public_Domain]

[MeganC]

This just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[andyt]

raydan raydan:

He's using a very wide brush to paint all Muslims as extremists when he's an extremist too.

Yeah, but he's one of our extremists. It's OK if you're on the side of the angels

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

raydan raydan:

He's using a very wide brush to paint all Muslims as extremists when he's an extremist too.

Yeah, but he's one of our extremists. It's OK if you're on the side of the angels

Yep, there's only a "handful" of muslim extremists. Just like only 5-10% of Germans were nazis. And we all know how well that turned out.

[andyt]

$1:

Christian extremists pose threat: Column

ust when it seemed as if Nevada deadbeat rancher Cliven Bundy had ridden off into the news media sunset, he has come trotting back with a challenge to Attorney General Eric Holder to debate the existence of racism in America.

In an ad supporting Independent American Party candidate Kamau Bakari's challenge to Rep. Dina Titus, D-Nev., Bundy — white horse and all — chats with Bakari, who is African American, about the problem of black "political correctness," and how "black folks think white folks owe them something."

Bakari calls Bundy — who in April surrounded himself with armed supporters to avoid paying more than $1 million in grazing fees and penalties he had accumulated over two decades — "a brave white man." Then comes the challenge to Holder.

This could be dismissed as yet the latest, and perhaps strangest, episode in Bundy's self-created patriot saga, were it not for a recent report by the federally funded National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism.

Drawing upon surveys of law enforcement and intelligence experts, the report cited the sovereign citizen movement — Bundy's law-defying, government-denying crowd — as the most potent U.S. terrorist threat: more threatening than Islamist jihadists, who along with militia/patriots, racist skinheads and neo-Nazis rounded out the top five.

Threat to homeland

Now, factor the Islamists — the usual default terrorist suspects — out of this list, and a striking pattern emerges. Contrary to the popular opinion that radical Islam is the primary threat to homeland security, Christianity provides the other four groups with their extremist rationale. All are in one way or another affiliated with the Christian Identity movement, a hodgepodge of anarchist and white supremacist politics dedicated to white Christian activism. It's all about God vs. government, and shoring up the rights of Anglo-Saxon Americans.

Since Bundy's armed standoff against federal agents in April, he has played this theme to the hilt. He recently told an audience in Utah that the almighty told him to fight a "civil war" against the federal government. His is, Bundy said, a spiritual battle.

In reporting this speech, the Associated Press noted that Bundy is a Mormon. But his God sounds a lot less like the Father/Mother God of Latter-day Saints than Christian Identity's Creator God, who made only white men in his image, and thus theologically justifies the kind of racism reflected in Bundy's widely reported musing as to whether "the Negro" was better off under slavery.

It's no coincidence that many factions of the Ku Klux Klan affiliate with Christian Identity. Nor that Christian Identity believers make up a rogues' gallery that includes the likes of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, serial bomber Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder, the Montana Freemen member who killed abortion provider George Tiller. Roeder proudly bore the "sovereign citizen" banner.

Christian Identity

So, too, do the mélange of individuals and groups broadly identified as militia, Aryan, skinhead and neo-Nazi who construct their ideology from the Christian Identity toolbox. Many of them showed up at Bundy's standoff. One of them — Jerad Miller — was judged to be too much of a loose cannon and apparently was told to leave. Two months later, he and his wife, Amanda, staged a mass murder in Las Vegas.

The mainstream news media have been remarkably slow when it comes to zeroing in on the pervasive reality of hate-based Christian extremism. It is easier, after all, to blame the un-American other. In 2012, six Sikhs were killed and three wounded in Milwaukee by Wade Michael Page, a neo-Nazi skinhead. The "dangerous other" isn't always Muslim or Muslim-looking. The Millers affixed a swastika to the body of one of the two police officers they killed.

Nevada journalist Jon Ralston told MSNBC's Ed Schultz that the really scary thing about the sovereignty movement is its members are beginning to think they are mainstream. Meanwhile, members of the movement are adopting Christian rhetoric, "evoking Scripture ... and equating the Constitution with Scripture."

The Bundy standoff — initially presented as prairie populism by popular media well beyond Fox News — reflects violent currents far deeper and older in American, and Christian, history. It needs to be seen for what it is — religious extremism taken to potentially lethal ends. To the extent that we as a society fail to grapple with the religious element in extremist violence, the blood is on all of our hands.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /17679789/

[N_Fiddledog]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I wish N_Fiddledog would meet a nice Muslim woman and fall in love...

Found her. We met at a rally in the no-go zone. It was the knuckles that first attracted me.

[GreenTiger]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I wish N_Fiddledog would meet a nice Muslim woman and fall in love...

Found her. We met at a rally in the no-go zone. It was the knuckles that first attracted me.

[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

raydan raydan:

He's using a very wide brush to paint all Muslims as extremists when he's an extremist too.

Yeah, but he's one of our extremists. It's OK if you're on the side of the angels

Yep, there's only a "handful" of muslim extremists. Just like only 5-10% of Germans were nazis. And we all know how well that turned out.

Are you talking about Canada? 3% of the population is Muslim = 1,000,000. So you're saying there are 10 percent = 100,000 extremist Muslims in Canada? (Of which apparently 90 are on the authorities radar). So this .3% of the Canadian population will first get all the other Muslim to go along with their ideology, and then this 3% of the Canadian population will make the remaining 97% of Canadians goose step along too? They will control the govt, have secret police disappearing and torturing people deemed enemies of this ideology, or just build concentration camps for the 99.7% of Canadians who aren't Muslim extremists? Really?

Alternatively, are you talking about the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world? So the 10% of them that are extremists will pull the other 90% into their world wide cornspiracy, make them follow along with Jistapo and concentration camps? World Muslims will goose step in unison to this ideology?

Really?


The reason I fear Christian extremists much more, is because they occupy positions of power in the US, have a substantial influence and voice there. Much more likely that the 100,000,000 US evangelicals, who believe that if you're not one of them you are damned will be led by the Christian extremists and dominionists to try to subvert the govt into a Christian theocracy.

And we've got em too.

$1:

Canada Dominionist Conference – Unite For Dominion
BY BENE DICTION ⋅ JANUARY 9, 2010 ⋅ EMAIL THIS POST ⋅ PRINT THIS POST ⋅ POST A COMMENT
FILED UNDER DICK DEWEERT, DOMINIONISM, KYSKOW, NAR
Canada’s neo-charismatic dominionists are putting on a show in Calgary January 28-30, 2010.
This is a stellar lineup of religious right leaders who believe Canadians must live under biblical law and they are just the folk to make it happen.

Dick Deweert who founded The Miracle Channel (Canada’s TBN) and who stepped down in 2007 after revelations of an extra-marital affair, is a headliner. Deweert is easing back into the public spotlight. His blog is here.

Faytene Kyskow, author of Stand on Guard who insists she doesn’t know what dominionism is and isn’t part of ’that group’ also a participant.
Speaker Ron Aitkens of Harvest Group, lost a recent tangle with the Alberta Securities Commission

$1:

What does Stephen Harper believe, and why should we care?
Posted by Theo Bromine on August 13th, 2011
Almost a year ago, journalist Marci McDonald spoke to CFI about her book The Armageddon Factor, in which she exposes some of the elements of the religious right in Canada. This was a surprise to many, as our politicians tend to be circumspect about their faith. (Case in point: Many people think that the term “theocon”—a combination of theocrat and neo-conservative—is a pejorative term coined by those in opposition to that position. On the contrary, according to McDonald, the term was invented by a Harper insider, and they quietly wear it as a badge of honour!) In contrast, down in the US, the links between the Tea Party and the religious right are proudly displayed. Here’s an article* about Michele Bachmann, Christian reconstructionist par excellence. So that’s what’s happening to our American friends, relatives and neighbours. And here is what reconstructionism and dominionism look like in Canada.
So why should we care? If I am a supporter of freedom of speech, and freedom of thought, shouldn’t I just leave these folks to their own faith, however delusional I personally believe it to be? Yes and no. People absolutely do have the right to privately believe whatever they choose. But dominionists and reconstructionists are on record as saying that they need to align the government with Christian principles and bring more people to faith in Christ in order to hasten the return of Jesus. So, in the public square, the only choice is theocracy or secularism. I know which one I would pick.

[Public_Domain]

[martin14]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I wish N_Fiddledog would meet a nice Muslim woman and fall in love...

Found her. We met at a rally in the no-go zone. It was 'HER' knuckles that first attracted me.

Had to fix that up for ya.

[Public_Domain]

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Yep, there's only a "handful" of muslim extremists. Just like only 5-10% of Germans were nazis. And we all know how well that turned out.

Are you talking about Canada?

No.

andyt andyt:

Alternatively, are you talking about the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world? So the 10% of them that are extremists will pull the other 90% into their world wide cornspiracy, make them follow along with Jistapo and concentration camps? World Muslims will goose step in unison to this ideology?

Really?

Who said only 10 % were extremists. The point is, a small minority of assholes can ruin anyplace if they try hard enough. In 1933, Germany's population was over 66 million and yet within a short time a small group of assholes managed to gain control of the entire nation. So your "point" about muslims in Canada that I didn't bother responding to is crap.

andyt andyt:

The reason I fear Christian extremists much more, is because they occupy positions of power in the US, have a substantial influence and voice there. Much more likely that the 100,000,000 US evangelicals, who believe that if you're not one of them you are damned will be led by the Christian extremists and dominionists to try to subvert the govt into a Christian theocracy.

And we've got em too.

$1:

Canada Dominionist Conference – Unite For Dominion
BY BENE DICTION ⋅ JANUARY 9, 2010 ⋅ EMAIL THIS POST ⋅ PRINT THIS POST ⋅ POST A COMMENT
FILED UNDER DICK DEWEERT, DOMINIONISM, KYSKOW, NAR
Canada’s neo-charismatic dominionists are putting on a show in Calgary January 28-30, 2010.
This is a stellar lineup of religious right leaders who believe Canadians must live under biblical law and they are just the folk to make it happen.

Dick Deweert who founded The Miracle Channel (Canada’s TBN) and who stepped down in 2007 after revelations of an extra-marital affair, is a headliner. Deweert is easing back into the public spotlight. His blog is here.

Faytene Kyskow, author of Stand on Guard who insists she doesn’t know what dominionism is and isn’t part of ’that group’ also a participant.
Speaker Ron Aitkens of Harvest Group, lost a recent tangle with the Alberta Securities Commission

$1:

What does Stephen Harper believe, and why should we care?
Posted by Theo Bromine on August 13th, 2011
Almost a year ago, journalist Marci McDonald spoke to CFI about her book The Armageddon Factor, in which she exposes some of the elements of the religious right in Canada. This was a surprise to many, as our politicians tend to be circumspect about their faith. (Case in point: Many people think that the term “theocon”—a combination of theocrat and neo-conservative—is a pejorative term coined by those in opposition to that position. On the contrary, according to McDonald, the term was invented by a Harper insider, and they quietly wear it as a badge of honour!) In contrast, down in the US, the links between the Tea Party and the religious right are proudly displayed. Here’s an article* about Michele Bachmann, Christian reconstructionist par excellence. So that’s what’s happening to our American friends, relatives and neighbours. And here is what reconstructionism and dominionism look like in Canada.
So why should we care? If I am a supporter of freedom of speech, and freedom of thought, shouldn’t I just leave these folks to their own faith, however delusional I personally believe it to be? Yes and no. People absolutely do have the right to privately believe whatever they choose. But dominionists and reconstructionists are on record as saying that they need to align the government with Christian principles and bring more people to faith in Christ in order to hasten the return of Jesus. So, in the public square, the only choice is theocracy or secularism. I know which one I would pick.

Marci McDonald? Are you for real dude?
McDonald has spent hundreds of hours interviewing evangelicals, but still seems to view them as Christian zombies masked as ordinary citizens, who "burble" and "enthuse" rather than merely speak, and whose emotional prayers make them look like "kung fu masters channelling spiritual vibes." She reduces their diverse beliefs to two extreme nodes: Christian Reconstructionism, a theocratic vision that seeks "dominion" over society by reinstating Mosaic law; and dispensationalist premillennialism, a view of the end times in which human history tumbles into chaos until Christ sweeps up believers in the Rapture and fights the final battle of Armageddon.

McDonald is more responsible than some commentators and stresses that only a handful of evangelicals adhere to Christian Reconstructionism in its most virulent form. Most would not condone Deuteronomy's command to stone homosexuals and adulterers.

However, her source notes reveal that her account relies heavily on a handful of books by American journalists who over-simplified evangelical thought in an effort to galvanize liberals during the George W. Bush era. Some of her subjects may indeed dream of ruling Canada by divine mandate, but she paints all - from Dutch Reformed to Lutheran to Mennonite - with the same theocratic brush, despite the fact that many of these churches have either rejected or severely qualified their views of Christian "dominion" and the Rapture-centred vision of end times. Although most evangelicals still believe that prophecy has something to do with current events, premillennialism has mellowed significantly in recent years.