[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Alright. At least nobody would be acquiring new (automatic weapons).

Sure they are. And the paradox of the black market means that these illicit weapons fetch a pretty dandy price in your part of the world. Which has the odd effect of making sure that they get smuggled into Canada.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Alright. At least nobody would be acquiring new (automatic weapons).

Sure they are. And the paradox of the black market means that these illicit weapons fetch a pretty dandy price in your part of the world. Which has the odd effect of making sure that they get smuggled into Canada.

Shhhh!

Since automatic weapons need a permit to transport them to an approved gun range to be used; and there is no process to get these permits, they've been effectively made useless.

Ensuring they are always at the owners home.

[bootlegga]

While I'm well aware that we'll never stop determined people (criminals or otherwise) from obtaining automatic weapons, I'm content knowing that most people don't have the ability to get one.

IMHO, nobody but the police or military has a NEED for one. When society completely collapses and we live in a Mad Max world like they do south of the border, I'll change my mind.

Until then, the small restriction in liberties is more than offset by the potential reduction in violence.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

IMHO, nobody but the police or military has a NEED for one.

Funny how not even your police or military had one when they needed it in Ottawa. Instead a man (who is now a hero) grabbed a pistol he was likely illicitly storing on-site to stop the gunman. Again proving the point that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

bootlegga bootlegga:

When society completely collapses and we live in a Mad Max world like they do south of the border, I'll change my mind.

And if that time does come to pass you'll be shit-outta-luck because by then it'll be too late to buy a gun.

It's like buying a fire extinguisher after your house starts burning.

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

While I'm well aware that we'll never stop determined people (criminals or otherwise) from obtaining automatic weapons, I'm content knowing that most people don't have the ability to get one.

IMHO, nobody but the police or military has a NEED for one. When society completely collapses and we live in a Mad Max world like they do south of the border, I'll change my mind.

Until then, the small restriction in liberties is more than offset by the potential reduction in violence.

I don't think the civilians have any need of automatic weapons either. But if civilians don't, then neither do police. Balance is only fair.

And we have no history of automatic gunfire violence, so I seen no need for any restriction of civil liberties to combat a non-existent threat.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

IMHO, nobody but the police or military has a NEED for one.

Funny how not even your police or military had one when they needed it in Ottawa. Instead a man (who is now a hero) grabbed a pistol he was likely illicitly storing on-site to stop the gunman. Again proving the point that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Funny, I saw lots of pictures of cops with assault rifles. I also thought I caught a glimpse of one in the shootout in the Halll of Honour too.

Even if they didn't have them then, they will now (probably the RCMP detail at Parliament).

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

When society completely collapses and we live in a Mad Max world like they do south of the border, I'll change my mind.

And if that time does come to pass you'll be shit-outta-luck because by then it'll be too late to buy a gun.

It's like buying a fire extinguisher after your house starts burning.

Perhaps, but since almost nobody else will have them either, my little old hunting rifle and shotgun will no doubt suffice.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

While I'm well aware that we'll never stop determined people (criminals or otherwise) from obtaining automatic weapons, I'm content knowing that most people don't have the ability to get one.

IMHO, nobody but the police or military has a NEED for one. When society completely collapses and we live in a Mad Max world like they do south of the border, I'll change my mind.

Until then, the small restriction in liberties is more than offset by the potential reduction in violence.

I don't think the civilians have any need of automatic weapons either. But if civilians don't, then neither do police. Balance is only fair.

And we have no history of automatic gunfire violence, so I seen no need for any restriction of civil liberties to combat a non-existent threat.

No, I think police do need them.

While they are unlikely to have to face them, they have a higher possibility than civilians due to the criminal element.

I also feel that the one method of defusing a stand-off is to overawe the shooter - and nothing scares a normal guy with a hunting rifle/shotgun like a SWAT team does.

[Hyack]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Who is 'they'? The 30/30 is a pretty powerful rifle. Here's a pic of the cartridge, on the left. The center is a NATO 5.56 X 45 and the right is a 7.62 X 51.

I think you have these rounds in the wrong order, the 5.56 X 45 in on the left with the 30-30 in the centre with the 7.62 X 51 on the right.

[Jabberwalker]

Hyack Hyack:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Who is 'they'? The 30/30 is a pretty powerful rifle. Here's a pic of the cartridge, on the left. The center is a NATO 5.56 X 45 and the right is a 7.62 X 51.

I think you have these rounds in the wrong order, the 5.56 X 45 in on the left with the 30-30 in the centre with the 7.62 X 51 on the right.

I think that you're right.

[ShepherdsDog]

yup...5.56mm =.223 caliber and a 7.62mm is a .308....essentially

[DrCaleb]

Hyack Hyack:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Who is 'they'? The 30/30 is a pretty powerful rifle. Here's a pic of the cartridge, on the left. The center is a NATO 5.56 X 45 and the right is a 7.62 X 51.

I think you have these rounds in the wrong order, the 5.56 X 45 in on the left with the 30-30 in the centre with the 7.62 X 51 on the right.

Yep, you are correct. From subjective appearance, my 30/30 does not take the rounds in the center but the rounds on the left. The center is listed as the 30/30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_WCF

[Hyack]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Hyack Hyack:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Who is 'they'? The 30/30 is a pretty powerful rifle. Here's a pic of the cartridge, on the left. The center is a NATO 5.56 X 45 and the right is a 7.62 X 51.

I think you have these rounds in the wrong order, the 5.56 X 45 in on the left with the 30-30 in the centre with the 7.62 X 51 on the right.

Yep, you are correct. From subjective appearance, my 30/30 does not take the rounds in the center but the rounds on the left. The center is listed as the 30/30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_WCF

??? Are you saying your 30-30 fires the 5.56 X 45 round?? Because of it's tubular magazine the 30-30 has always been loaded with round or flat nosed bullets to prevent accidental ignition in the magazine due to the rifles recoil.

[DrCaleb]

Hyack Hyack:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Hyack Hyack:

I think you have these rounds in the wrong order, the 5.56 X 45 in on the left with the 30-30 in the centre with the 7.62 X 51 on the right.

Yep, you are correct. From subjective appearance, my 30/30 does not take the rounds in the center but the rounds on the left. The center is listed as the 30/30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_WCF

??? Are you saying your 30-30 fires the 5.56 X 45 round?? Because of it's tubular magazine the 30-30 has always been loaded with round or flat nosed bullets to prevent accidental ignition in the magazine due to the rifles recoil.

No, the last 30-30 ammo I purchased (Federal??) did not have the snub nose, but the 'boat' nose like the bullet on the left. I think that's where my brain left the track. I also have the tube blocked so it only holds 3 rounds to lessen the chance of that happening.

It's tough to gauge size from a picture.

[Hyack]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No, the last 30-30 ammo I purchased (Federal??) did not have the snub nose, but the 'boat' nose like the bullet on the left. I think that's where my brain left the track. I also have the tube blocked so it only holds 3 rounds to lessen the chance of that happening.

Ahhhhh....You're a braver man than I Gunga Din!! The most pointy type (spitzer) bullets I would load into a tubular magazine is 1. All it could take is one sharp jolt to ruin your whole day, never mind the rifle! Find a 30-30 with a box magazine for those rounds and stick with the round or flat nose for the tubular mag.

[Hyack]

andyt andyt:

I understand that it can't take a scope, so is losing popularity. But then they said the 30/30 isn't very powerful compared to what else is out there. That surprised me.

There is no problem scoping ANY Winchester 30-30, it may require a side mounted scope but anything is possible.

scoped Winchester 30-30