[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

A good number of them already tried to do something and are in jail or awaiting trial for it. Just that those were larger, more complicated plots that if successful would have killed many people. A lot easier to intercept and charge people with plotting those. Attacks like this one are almost impossible to prevent with police work, since it's just one guy and a spur of the moment act.

Agreed. Random spur of the moment things are pretty much impossible to predict and therefore prevent. So there must be another strategy to prevent it.

andyt andyt:

Our odds are not good in this sort of attack, unless by live and let die you're thinking of it in a preemptive sense. I hope not.

I'd like to hope not as well; I don't see violence as the solution to every problem. But I'm also a realist. Violence is all some people understand. If extremists want me dead because I'm not Islamic enough for them, well my inner Ghandi just isn't that developed. I'm perfectly OK with the sentiment that they need to be dealt with because they are not tolerant enough.

No, I don't believe we should tolerate the intolerant. (As ironic as that statement sounds.)

andyt andyt:

I do know the police will sometimes have a talk with people they are watching, give them a warning, and that prevents some attacks.

I'm sure the people who were marching men who weren't Muslim enough down to a river to have their throat slit and bodies discarded in the river would straighten up and fly right when given an finger wagging by a Mountie.

andyt andyt:

But what we really need is to pull the larger Muslim community into this, where they are willing to stand up against this bullshit. We certainly won't do that with the sort of anti-Muslim rants we see on CKA, just alienate them further. OTOH, responsible people should be reaching out to Muslims more, and putting it to them that part of being a citizen is getting involved. It's not fair to hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of the fringe, OTOH, all Muslims should quit just complaining about that and make a greater effort to prevent radicalization. It will benefit them greatly if they are seen as being on the right side here.

On this we agree, going back to the 'other strategy' I mention. We need the wider 'buy in' from the whole community to stop the radical element. I think many tragedies can be prevented, as they already have been, by the Muslim community as a whole. But there are always those who will see that community as inferior to themselves and not listen to them. For those, a good public lynching might be in order. I'll bet even the radicals would get the message behind a body rotting in a public square with a "pig fucker" sign hanging on it.

Yes, I'm only semi-serious here. But don't dismiss the idea out of hand!

[BartSimpson]

It's another case of workplace violence.

[BartSimpson]

.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Violence is all some people understand. If extremists want me dead because I'm not Islamic enough for them, well my inner Ghandi just isn't that developed. I'm perfectly OK with the sentiment that they need to be dealt with because they are not tolerant enough.

No, I don't believe we should tolerate the intolerant. (As ironic as that statement sounds.)

But there are always those who will see that community as inferior to themselves and not listen to them. For those, a good public lynching might be in order. I'll bet even the radicals would get the message behind a body rotting in a public square with a "pig fucker" sign hanging on it.

Yes, I'm only semi-serious here. But don't dismiss the idea out of hand!

this is exactly what I'm afraid of, that this becomes more than semi-serious. Taking you semi-seriously, what would be your trigger for this public lynching? Do you mean after they've committed violence, or preemptively? If after, you used the logic of how depraved these people are, so talking to them would have no effect.(Yet the mounties do just that, because these guys are on the way to being radicalized, not full blown. sometimes this scares them straight, sometimes it gives them more cred with their fellow jihadis.) These people are also suiciders, so being lynched isn't going to deter them either, if they are that far down the path. If before, holy shit. Meanwhile we disintegrate our whole society by having vigilantism run rampant. this really would be a way the terrorists win.

[bootlegga]

RIP for the fallen soldier

[Newsbot]

Title: Canadian soldier struck by 'radicalized' driver in Quebec dies | CTV News
Category: Military
Posted By: Guy_Fawkes
Date: 2014-10-21 06:44:50
Canadian

[Zipperfish]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

This incident is extremely disturbing to say the least but what's really disturbing is Mulcairs response.

I think you are too easily disturbed.

RIP to the falllen soldier. Shitty.

[martin14]

It's too much to tell jihandyt that I'm pretty sure all that bullshit was tried before..

In France.
In Germany.
In Holland.
In the UK.

And it is also too much to tell our Muslim expert that it doesn't work, as the
listed countries can attest to.


We don't have 'better' Muslims.
We don't have 'more integrated' Muslims.
We don't have 'more peaceful' Muslims.

We just have fewer of them... for now.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Violence is all some people understand. If extremists want me dead because I'm not Islamic enough for them, well my inner Ghandi just isn't that developed. I'm perfectly OK with the sentiment that they need to be dealt with because they are not tolerant enough.

No, I don't believe we should tolerate the intolerant. (As ironic as that statement sounds.)

But there are always those who will see that community as inferior to themselves and not listen to them. For those, a good public lynching might be in order. I'll bet even the radicals would get the message behind a body rotting in a public square with a "pig fucker" sign hanging on it.

Yes, I'm only semi-serious here. But don't dismiss the idea out of hand!

this is exactly what I'm afraid of, that this becomes more than semi-serious.

At some point it has to come off the 'drawing board' and into reality, because at some point the radicals will stop talking and start doing. We can't keep talking after that point.

andyt andyt:

Taking you semi-seriously, what would be your trigger for this public lynching? Do you mean after they've committed violence, or preemptively? If after, you used the logic of how depraved these people are, so talking to them would have no effect.

I don't know what would be my trigger. I'm pretty sure that they'd have to throw the first punch. And no, it's not even close to the same logic. I'm perfectly willing to let them toot their own horns and rant all day long about how we are all sick and depraved and without morals and how they are coming to kill us infidels . . . as long as it stays as words. Once it's actions, that would be a turning point. As Sir Winston Churchill once said, "If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it."

Would it be the first video of a innocent Canadian being beheaded in Canada? Would it be a train derailment or a bus that crashes into a school? I don't know, but it would be a once off event. After that, the talking ends.

andyt andyt:

(Yet the mounties do just that, because these guys are on the way to being radicalized, not full blown. sometimes this scares them straight, sometimes it gives them more cred with their fellow jihadis.)

Let's hope it does scare them straight. The alternative is not the best outcome.

andyt andyt:

These people are also suiciders, so being lynched isn't going to deter them either, if they are that far down the path. If before, holy shit. Meanwhile we disintegrate our whole society by having vigilantism run rampant. this really would be a way the terrorists win.

But they are also religious fanatics. They fight for a belief, that destroying the Infidel unbeliever gets them into everlasting paradise. Unless they know we use 'Pig Bullets', which prevents them from entering paradise.

And society would not fall just because it cleanses itself of a parasite. Hosts shed their parasites all the time, and it's usually better off for the host.

[andyt]

As jihadis, they believe they can do anything forbidden in the Koran and still be a glorious martyr. Ie drink, fornicate, eat pig, what have you. So that won't work.

I'm still not sure what you're on about. If you only want to act after they commit a crime, why not let the justice system handle it, so we remain a country governed by the rule of law, the greatest achievement of Western Europe? The plotters that have been sentenced so far got some stiff sentences. If the guy in this story had lived, he'd have gotten life probably for 2nd degree. I would certainly agree that someone who has been radicalized should not be granted parole, should be kept in for a very long time. I think if this thing ramps up, the parole board would see it that way too. But we don't need to descend into anarchy (which vigilantism is) to deal with this threat, nor will it help to do so.

[BartSimpson]

As radical as the moslems are in trying to destroy our culture I am more radical in my defense of it.

Meaning that I'm radical enough to be patient.

The moslems always show their true nature if you're patient enough to wait for it. And I think it's just a matter of time before they use a chemical or biological weapon as a terror weapon.

And, like the Germans and Japanese before them, what they perceive as weakness in our culture will turn around to rise up and annihilate them.

They, like the Germans and Japanese before them, will be given the choice to swear off their pestilential all-encompassing religion or die. Some will choose life and God bless them for it. Many more will choose death and I believe even people like Andy and Mr. Canada and Sandorski will be happy to see it given to them.

But, for now, they haven't killed enough of us and I'm patient enough to give it time.

Because the one thing I know I can count on is the true nature of the moslem.

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

, why not let the justice system handle it, so we remain a country governed by the rule of law, the greatest achievement of Western Europe?

pffff

The police system 'handled' it properly, and I trust the SQ will do a proper inquiry.

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

andyt andyt:

, why not let the justice system handle it, so we remain a country governed by the rule of law, the greatest achievement of Western Europe?

pffff

The police system 'handled' it properly, and I trust the SQ will do a proper inquiry.

Are you saying the police acted a vigilantes? Because if not, your reply, in context to what I said, makes no sense at all.

[ShepherdsDog]

What the West believes is showing restraint, they see as inaction brought on by weakness. Something to be exploited, and so they are emboldened and encouraged to escalate matters.

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

What the West believes is showing restraint, they see as inaction brought on by weakness. Something to be exploited, and so they are emboldened and encouraged to escalate matters.

This.