[Zipperfish]

Xort Xort:

My level of care is about 0, so long as the price stays low I will accept a few pigs getting kicked and poked.

Had you pegged for a sociopath. Thanks for confirming.

[andyt]

So you and I care. But what are we doing about it? Do you shop for ethically treated meat? I just buy mine from the supermarket and try not to think about how its produced. I would be all in favor of stricter regulations and enforcement of how animals are treated, willing to pay a bit more for that meat. But I'm not willing to pay super high prices for ethical meat because it's such a specialty. ie I still want my meat mass produced, and that's never going to be all that pretty. So Zort may just be less hypocritical than you or I.

[wildrosegirl]

Xort Xort:

We raise these animals to be killed and then eaten.I'm at a loss to what someone is meant to do when an animal will not move.

Yes we do. The are living, feeling, creatures which deserve the same respect that any other living creature does (even lousy humans). If an animal is going to provide you with meals for a week, month, year... at the very least, it deserves a humane existence until butchering time comes.
If your two year old won't move when you tell him to, are you going to unleash the same punishment that was on the pig? Of course not. There are other methods of gaining end results. Abuse is unnecessary. You obviously have never spent any time around animals if this has you at a loss.

$1:

I'd also like to point out that while hidden camera footage is shocking and powerful. It's also carefully edited to give the story the people running the camera want.

How much footage was recorded? Weeks worth?

You have obviously never set foot in a livestock barn. It takes about 20 minutes to establish that it has become a sickening, disgusting industry which needs monitoring, regulation, and restructuring immediately. Not just the hog barns. Beef and chicken as well. Again - you should spend some time there yourself before dismissing the issue because it's a huge one.

[raydan]

This is nothing, you should see what they do to carrots.

[Xort]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Had you pegged for a sociopath. Thanks for confirming.

Have you stopped eating and using all animal products yet?
Living life as a vegan?
If you are, well good for you. If you are not then at least have the guts to admit that I'm willing to say what your are just willing to do but not admit.

It's called honestly. Most people do not care enough to make a change that will negatively effect their life to make the life of an animal better. I'm just willing to express that view.

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

Yes we do. The are living, feeling, creatures which deserve the same respect that any other living creature does (even lousy humans). If an animal is going to provide you with meals for a week, month, year... at the very least, it deserves a humane existence until butchering time comes.

We already treat animals far better than they would find in nature. We already have exceeded the standard of animals. I don't think that poking an animal or kicking it is wildly out of line given that very soon it's going to be killed then chopped up into parts and then eaten.

In the end the treatment of the animal in the last hours of it's life are less critical to me than my final price.

$1:

If your two year old won't move when you tell him to, are you going to unleash the same punishment that was on the pig?

I can pick a 2 year old up and use my physical strength to overcome their objections. A pig is a much different situation.

$1:

Of course not. There are other methods of gaining end results. Abuse is unnecessary. You obviously have never spent any time around animals if this has you at a loss.

So you have a pig that's not hurt but refuses to move in the direct you want. What are you going to do to get it to move. And if you touch the animal in anyway that's abuse. Also if you scare the animal that's abuse. If you cause it any distress in anyway, that's abuse.

I'm going to wait for your other methods to gain your result of getting this pig to move and go get skinned and butchered.

$1:

You have obviously never set foot in a livestock barn. It takes about 20 minutes to establish that it has become a sickening, disgusting industry which needs monitoring, regulation, and restructuring immediately. Not just the hog barns. Beef and chicken as well. Again - you should spend some time there yourself before dismissing the issue because it's a huge one.

It's not a huge issue. It's not even a minor issue. But again, do you have proof that they only took 20min of footage?

Further are you stating that I can find the same treatment in any facility I go to within 20min?

What I think we are looking at is a few cases out of the millions of animals that are processed, edited down to make the most emotional impact as possible.

This video, was far from what I'd call an unacceptable level of abuse. I've seen the same videos you have put together by activists, and those can be unacceptable.

But I'd suggest you spend some time in developing nations and watch how people treat animals and livestock, before you start in with how I need to spend time in a processing facility.

[BeaverFever]

In 1862, Xort wrote:

$1:

I'm a realist. I know I'm still going to buy cotton products, I'm still going to buy plantation products.

We breed these slaves to do our farming. I'm at a loss to what someone is meant to do when an slave will not work. Use harsh language?

[Thanos]

They have short and miserable enough lives as it is. There's no justification for tossing some extra cruelty and viciousness into the process just to speed things up. Or so some shrivelled souls can get there jollies out of inflicting and watching another living creature's agony.

[Alta_redneck]

When does butchering time start???

Olymel Meats Red Deer, on the left side is Western Hog Exchange

On the other side of the doorway seen in the video when the stock prod comes out, is the kill floor ( so I've been told )1300 pigs an hour go through that door. Those pigs know what is happening on the other side. Your not going to move them by motivational wisdom, telling them sh*t like " com'on let"s do this for Aronld Ziffle, the most famous pig of all time." isn't going to work.

0:

olymel.jpg [ 188.22 KiB | Viewed 56 times ]

http://www.olymel.com/en/

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

[wildrosegirl]

Xort Xort:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Had you pegged for a sociopath. Thanks for confirming.

Have you stopped eating and using all animal products yet?
Living life as a vegan?
If you are, well good for you. If you are not then at least have the guts to admit that I'm willing to say what your are just willing to do but not admit.

It's called honestly. Most people do not care enough to make a change that will negatively effect their life to make the life of an animal better. I'm just willing to express that view.

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

Yes we do. The are living, feeling, creatures which deserve the same respect that any other living creature does (even lousy humans). If an animal is going to provide you with meals for a week, month, year... at the very least, it deserves a humane existence until butchering time comes.

We already treat animals far better than they would find in nature. We already have exceeded the standard of animals. I don't think that poking an animal or kicking it is wildly out of line given that very soon it's going to be killed then chopped up into parts and then eaten.

In the end the treatment of the animal in the last hours of it's life are less critical to me than my final price.

$1:

If your two year old won't move when you tell him to, are you going to unleash the same punishment that was on the pig?

I can pick a 2 year old up and use my physical strength to overcome their objections. A pig is a much different situation.

$1:

Of course not. There are other methods of gaining end results. Abuse is unnecessary. You obviously have never spent any time around animals if this has you at a loss.

So you have a pig that's not hurt but refuses to move in the direct you want. What are you going to do to get it to move. And if you touch the animal in anyway that's abuse. Also if you scare the animal that's abuse. If you cause it any distress in anyway, that's abuse.

I'm going to wait for your other methods to gain your result of getting this pig to move and go get skinned and butchered.

$1:

You have obviously never set foot in a livestock barn. It takes about 20 minutes to establish that it has become a sickening, disgusting industry which needs monitoring, regulation, and restructuring immediately. Not just the hog barns. Beef and chicken as well. Again - you should spend some time there yourself before dismissing the issue because it's a huge one.

It's not a huge issue. It's not even a minor issue. But again, do you have proof that they only took 20min of footage?

Further are you stating that I can find the same treatment in any facility I go to within 20min?

What I think we are looking at is a few cases out of the millions of animals that are processed, edited down to make the most emotional impact as possible.

This video, was far from what I'd call an unacceptable level of abuse. I've seen the same videos you have put together by activists, and those can be unacceptable.

But I'd suggest you spend some time in developing nations and watch how people treat animals and livestock, before you start in with how I need to spend time in a processing facility.

Your responses reaffirm you truly have no clue what you're talking about. Come back when you do.

[Xort]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

In 1862, Xort wrote:

$1:

I'm a realist. I know I'm still going to buy cotton products, I'm still going to buy plantation products.
We breed these slaves to do our farming. I'm at a loss to what someone is meant to do when an slave will not work. Use harsh language?

You have yet to answer the question of how you would get a pig to enter a building or another room that it didn't want to without the use of some force.

When you can answer that question I'll reply to your sniveling personal attack here.

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

Your responses reaffirm you truly have no clue what you're talking about. Come back when you do.

So in other words I don't have anything to say to this, I'll just claim the other person is so wrong I can't even form up a basic logical statement.

Look if I have to teach quantum physics and cosmology to creationists when talking about the origin of life the universe and everything, you can least answer the question of how to get a pig to move.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

You have yet to answer the question of how you would get a pig to enter a building or another room that it didn't want to without the use of some force.

When you can answer that question I'll reply to your sniveling personal attack here.

$1:

I guess you need to read the OP again then because you seem to be the only one at a loss


The undercover investigator said that moving group of pigs 70 to 100 at a time was common practice, leading to overcrowding and pigs piling up on top of each other.



Employees were equipped with a specialized plastic bat filled with pellets that’s meant to be used as a noise maker, to encourage the animals to move.

However some employees used the bats to hit the pigs. In some cases, the animals had no room to move and couldn’t escape the beating.



W5 obtained a copy of Western Hog Exchange’s Employee Manual which clearly outlines its animal welfare policy -- and much of it seems like common sense.

It states:
• Do not: “kick any part of the hog’s body.”
•Do not: “drag any downer hogs from a truck.”
• “Only move small groups of hogs at a time.”
•And “prods are not allowed to be used in the barn to move hogs.

.

So to recap:

1) You are being insencere in pretending this is stubborn pigs who refuse to move. In fact, these are pigs who are UNABLE to move because employees are overcrowding the pen or the pigs are lame. You are tyring to change the facts to something that is more convenient for your argument

2) The fact that beating and prodding the pigs is a violation of the policy is proof that it is not necessary.

For someone who claims to be indifferent to whether there is cruelty or not, you sure put alot of effort in trying to deny there's any cruelty.... why is that? How do you deny something exists while simultaneously trying to justifiy it?

OK, now that you've bought yourself a few minutes of time, answer my sniveling personal attack please.

[Xort]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

OK, now that you've bought yourself a few minutes of time, answer my sniveling personal attack please.

You didn't answer my question. How do you get an animal to move into a building or part of the building that it doesn't want to go into?

You answered a different question, that I didn't ask. A sort of question version of the strawman fallacy.

Answer the question I asked.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

We already treat animals far better than they would find in nature. We already have exceeded the standard of animals. I don't think that poking an animal or kicking it is wildly out of line given that very soon it's going to be killed then chopped up into parts and then eaten.

In the end the treatment of the animal in the last hours of it's life are less critical to me than my final price.

You really are living in a rainbow unicorn land. Bullshit. 'Nature' is the only way to treat animals like 'nature'. All else is unnatural. And farm animals have a standard of living that was once reserved only for the very best human concentration camps.

I've worked in a slaughterhouse, and this video is pretty tame. I've seen a pig beaten to death with a 2x4 because it didn't move down the line fast enough. It was beaten so bad it couldn't walk. It's back was broken, and so were both back legs. But it was still forced down the down the line, dragging it's broken legs behind it, and still slaughtered. And every other pig in the line behind it also knew the horror that was coming. And that was just one incident I can recall. The sad part is the other thousands of animals who I put a spike into their brain I hardly recall at all.

Their last minutes for the pigs behind that one were filled with a terror I don't wish on any living creature. That's why I only eat meat from sources I know, usually from a farmer who slaughters on his own property where the animals don't have to be penned up for hours or days or weeks before they meet their end. Or fish. Fish aren't that bright.

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Those pigs know what is happening on the other side. Your not going to move them by motivational wisdom, telling them sh*t like " com'on let"s do this for Aronld Ziffle, the most famous pig of all time." isn't going to work.

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

In many ways, yes they are. Pigs like to play. Pigs like to cuddle. They have feelings and moods. Don't anyone kid yourself. Many animals like and dislike the same things we do and have the same emotions we do.

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

[Zipperfish]

Xort Xort:

Have you stopped eating and using all animal products yet?

No actually I fiosh regularly and hunt occassionaly.

It's not about killing the animals for food, it's about treating them humanely while they are alive.

The normal response to wanton cruelty to animals or humans is disgust. You seem to lack the empathy required for that.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Xort Xort:

We already treat animals far better than they would find in nature. We already have exceeded the standard of animals. I don't think that poking an animal or kicking it is wildly out of line given that very soon it's going to be killed then chopped up into parts and then eaten.

In the end the treatment of the animal in the last hours of it's life are less critical to me than my final price.

You really are living in a rainbow unicorn land. Bullshit. 'Nature' is the only way to treat animals like 'nature'. All else is unnatural. And farm animals have a standard of living that was once reserved only for the very best human concentration camps.

I've worked in a slaughterhouse, and this video is pretty tame. I've seen a pig beaten to death with a 2x4 because it didn't move down the line fast enough. It was beaten so bad it couldn't walk. It's back was broken, and so were both back legs. But it was still forced down the down the line, dragging it's broken legs behind it, and still slaughtered. And every other pig in the line behind it also knew the horror that was coming. And that was just one incident I can recall. The sad part is the other thousands of animals who I put a spike into their brain I hardly recall at all.

Their last minutes for the pigs behind that one were filled with a terror I don't wish on any living creature. That's why I only eat meat from sources I know, usually from a farmer who slaughters on his own property where the animals don't have to be penned up for hours or days or weeks before they meet their end. Or fish. Fish aren't that bright.

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Those pigs know what is happening on the other side. Your not going to move them by motivational wisdom, telling them sh*t like " com'on let"s do this for Aronld Ziffle, the most famous pig of all time." isn't going to work.

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

In many ways, yes they are. Pigs like to play. Pigs like to cuddle. They have feelings and moods. Don't anyone kid yourself. Many animals like and dislike the same things we do and have the same emotions we do.

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

So by your philosophy, we can assume you're a vegan?