[N_Fiddledog]

Delwin Delwin:

Right, Singh said they were denied entry, where a brawl ensued (unsubstatiated and unsourced.)

So Singh says they were denied entry. The denied entry is not in question. That a brawl ensued is what is in question. Singh never said a brawl ensued and even if he did, he was not outside.
They chose to couple the fact that Singh said this with the assumption that a brawl occurred.

Here is Singh's quote:

$1:

“The complaints that we were hearing from a lot of our members was that their names were not on the (voters) list today, although they got invitations to come to the nomination meeting,” said the association’s executive vice-president, Amarinder Singh. “They waited the whole hour to get to the polling station, but then, they were turned away.”

Hang on a sec there hero.

You're quoting from the Toronto Star article I posted in the OP. Weren't you telling us that one couldn't be trusted?

Or is it only those bits that say something more like what you want to hear?

I notice you somehow didn't think the next sentence mattered which says.

Singh said those who were denied their votes gathered outside, where eventually a brawl erupted.

[N_Fiddledog]

As to that "it's only real if it's in quotation marks" horse hooey, those of us who speak Prog know what that really converts to is "It's only real if it's in quotation marks and it says what we want to hear".

[Delwin]

Those are the Star's words not Singh's. What aren't you getting here ?

This is Singh's quote word for word verbatim:

$1:

“The complaints that we were hearing from a lot of our members was that their names were not on the (voters) list today, although they got invitations to come to the nomination meeting,”

“They waited the whole hour to get to the polling station, but then, they were turned away.”

This is what the Star published:

$1:

Singh said those who were denied their votes gathered outside, where eventually a brawl erupted.

That Singh said people who were denied entry were gathered outside is substantiated, that a brawl occurred is not.

They are completely different facts.
Just take a few minutes to absorb please before posting the same thing over and over.

[Zipperfish]

Party nominations...last of the blood sports.

[N_Fiddledog]

You missed my second post Del. We must have been posting at the same time.

But basically what it said was when you tell me something is only credible if it's in quotation marks then try this one on, "Horse hooey "

[Delwin]

FD, he didn't say a brawl occurred period. He did say that the people who were denied entry were gathered outside.

That is the truth of the matter, and if I am wrong, just show me where he has said it, or anyone who was actually there said it.

[Delwin]

Could you at least concede that reporting a supposed conflict where police are called and getting the police force, the city, and the building that the conflict occurred in wrong is an example of horrible journalism and be a normal human being for once ?

[N_Fiddledog]

Delwin Delwin:

FD, he didn't say a brawl occurred period. He did say that the people who were denied entry were gathered outside.

That is the truth of the matter, and if I am wrong, just show me where he has said it, or anyone who was actually there said it.

Show it do you? Hell it's quoted above in large emboldened print from the Toronto Star.

$1:

Singh said those who were denied their votes gathered outside, where eventually a brawl erupted.

You'd like us to believe the journalist stopped being credible, because he stopped using quotation marks. You should stop. Stop being ridiculous.

So here's the thing - there are conflicting stories, as is often the case in these situations of Singhs and Grewals.

We have them happen around where I live too. We even get the allegations of voter fraud. It's common, and if you'd like my best guess most likely true.

So here's what I think happened. There was an argument about who was going to be allowed to vote. The disgruntled were somehow moved outside, or barred from coming inside. There was yelling and jostling out there. Perhaps a punch or two was thrown, but seeing as best guess says it was just a sikh versus Hindu thing they did not go the Mississauga Muslim route with the weapons putting people in the hospital and such.

So then reporters and police turn up and try to make sense of the mess.

[Delwin]

So the star got the city, the police force and the building wrong but you accept the rest as fact ? That is perfectly credible to you ?

The fact is, the star does not even indicate he said it.

Talk about blinders, there are no quotes there because he never said it. You know it and I know it.

[N_Fiddledog]

I gave you three links other than the Star, sweet pea. You offered one, and I'm not sure even that one says exactly what you want it too.

[Delwin]

1.Oh you mean the National post were the brawl "allegedly" happened ?

2. Or this in depth unsourced commentary:
Party officials say a brawl erupted Sunday night after business lawyer Raj Grewal won the federal Liberal nomination for the riding of Brampton East.

Which is just a regurgitation of the Toronto star story. AM640 talk radio doesn't actually have investigative journalists, FYI. Danny Longo is an anchor. All of their news comes from other publications, in this case, the Star.

3. Maybe you meant the third link that actually sourced the info:
Kevin Singh, a Liberal supporter who said he was turned way along with his family, said a lot of those denied votes were supporters of the losing candidate, Parminder Singh, a doctor and sports commentator, who he said intended to challenge Grewal’s victory. It was not immediately clear as of Sunday night what margin Grewal won by.

The candidates did not immediately respond to requests for comment last night.

Toronto Star


You see when an alternative news source picks up the Bullshit story from the Toronto Star, that doesn't actually make the Star Story more credible. It just makes your inability to substantiate a fact more clear.

[rickc]

I think Delwin hit the nail on the head here. One man claims that a brawl took place, and a so called "journalist" ran the story in Canada's largest daily newspaper without doing any investigation whatsoever. This journalist could not track down one person out of 750 (other than Mr. Singh) to make a statement? If there was a brawl, than there should be some injuries. Did anyone go to the hospital seeking treatment? No cuts, bruises, abrasions, broken bones, skinned knuckles whatsoever? No one calling the police wishing to press charges for assault? In this day where even the homeless possess smart phones, surely SOMEONE in a crowd of 750 angry people would have recorded this major brawl. If there was a brawl at this event, there would be several versions on youtube already.

One man makes a claim, and one journalist is to lazy to get off his ass and do his job. He probably did not even make one phone call looking for some collaboration of the story. Not one bit of collaborating testimony, or evidence to back up this story, yet this journalist proceeds with running the story. My old high school newspaper had higher journalistic standards than this. Hell Alex Jones displays more effort than this.

Kudos to you Delwin for pointing out the total lack of standards (and utter laziness) that is going on at Canada's largest daily. I would rep if I could.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Delwin Delwin:

The quote from the police is the source of the info. Toronto star is the outlet that presented the info and used "Liberal Officals" as a source.

You see, they are both sources of info to readers but require sources of info to report the news. Except of course right wing blowhards like Ezra Levant who are busy making their own news.

You see how that works ?

And so you are saying there was a brawl with 700 witnesses and they couldn't get 1 interview or 1 actual quote from a real person to back that up. And no one was arrested and no injuries were reported.

Bullshit.

As a reader I am compelled to ask ? What exactly constitutes a brawl in their mind ? Was there a punch thrown ? How many people were involved ? Weapons ? Male or female ? Anything ?

These are questions that any competent journalist would have asked.

These idiots couldn't even get the city or the police force involved correct. Terrible, just terrible.

You think this is an isolated problem? Real journalism has gone by the wayside in favour of editorializing or pushing agendas.
I mean if you're that upset about shoddy reporting, this should just piss you right off.
https://www.honestreporting.ca/after-ma ... hort/12937

Yep, when the CBC reports stories that are out-right lies, that's ok though. Remember this one? http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/28/cb ... -of-errors

And this is supposed to a publicly funded news outlet. It's bad enough when private media outlets lie or print misleading headlines or stories, but it's particularly sickening when a publicly owned media outlet pushes propaganda and rhetoric that it either knows is bullshit or didn't bother vetting properly.

I sure hope your high standards apply equally to all the mainstream media sources. In fact, the next time the CBC prints bullshit, and they inevitably will again, I'll fully expect you to be the first one to call them out on it.

[N_Fiddledog]

I'm not saying journalism these days doesn't suck. I'm not saying the Red Star doesn't suck. It does.

I am saying the strawman of faulty journalism is erected here to be attacked while we are diverted from the implications of the essential and corroborated claims.

There were allegations of voter fraud or vote tampering, or some sort of nastiness.

The talk radio 640 link tells us candidate, Parminder Singh plans to challenge Grewal's victory.

The National Post reminded us this was not the first allegation of Liberal vote tampering.

$1:

Last spring party leader Justin Trudeau was accused of tampering with the open-nomination process in a Toronto riding when he blocked a Liberal candidate.

Whether a brawl happened or "allegedly happened" is part of the strawman. Del claims it matters, but the Toronto Star only claims party officials alleged a brawl. So what's the problem? They're both saying the same thing.

However...

A crowd ranging in different estimates from 250 to 750 were kept outside. Some sort of altercation ranging in different descriptions from "verbal", to "a tussle", to "a brawl" happened. We know something happened because as the National Post says...

$1:

Police were called to the Mississauga International Centre on Sunday evening after nearly 250 disgruntled Liberals were turned away.

So there were allegations of voting malfeasance. Some who felt they had a right to vote were kept outside. Some sort of altercation happened out there and the police were called.

The Red Star sucks. OK, so what? That doesn't make the fact there was another allegation of liberal vote tampering, with this one leading to an altercation amongst its membership any less cogent.