[herbie]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Yogi Yogi:

Hey. If I can buy cigs for 1/2 the price I pay when the feds bend me over the counter.... Turnabout is fair play! Still lookin for someplace I can buy gasoline for 1/2 what the feds are charging.

The old saying "Don't steal. The govt hates competion" comes to mind.

Reserve gas? Or "dyed gas"?

Neither are 1/2 price, but both are discounted compared to retail.

Government might not like you cruising around with dyed gas in your tank.

Even though half the price of gas is tax, the rez prices are only 10-15c less. Partly because some of the tax is at the front-end, partly because the Bands use the profits to make jobs and improvements on the rez.
Around here dyed gas is a lame 2c less. Not worth getting busted over.

[housewife]

Our local rez price is 20 - 25c less.

[raydan]

I remember hearing this story years ago, probably late 60s or early 70s... from reputable sources.


Canadian military personnel stationed overseas in Europe got their gas on base for a lot less than the locals payed off base. A few enterprising soldiers would gas up on base, siphon and transfer it into jugs off base and then sell it to the locals... at a pretty good profit.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

Sure, that's why Colorado expects to haul in 98 million in tax revenue on legal pot this year.

Make cigs/pot/booze illegal, all profits flow to crime. Make them legal and most profits flow to govt, much less to crime. But in black and white world, I guess that just doesn't compute, all illegal sales must end or it's not worth doing.

So it's all about the profit then?

What happened to the mantra about organized crime going away? Gang members at the McDonalds job fair? The end of violence over drugs?

Since it's all about the profit, let's legalize everything.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

Sure, that's why Colorado expects to haul in 98 million in tax revenue on legal pot this year.

Make cigs/pot/booze illegal, all profits flow to crime. Make them legal and most profits flow to govt, much less to crime. But in black and white world, I guess that just doesn't compute, all illegal sales must end or it's not worth doing.

So it's all about the profit then?

What happened to the mantra about organized crime going away? Gang members at the McDonalds job fair? The end of violence over drugs?

Since it's all about the profit, let's legalize everything.

Take off the glasses man, there's a whole world of color out there.

Unsound Unsound:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I thought that if we legalized drugs that the black market disappeared?

Yep, that's what everyone has been saying for years. Legalization will fix everything.


(sarcasm font btw)

x2

[andyt]

to spell it out for those with small brains:

CO is pulling in 100 mil a year in taxes - a portion of that, I believe is mandated to be used for prevention and rehab. (Very little rehab needed for pot, so other drugs will get the most benefit here) So that's 100 mil that weren't there before that could be used for drug prevention and rehab.

WA charges 25% tax, CO is much lower. But let's say 25%. That means that there's now 400 million in pot sales that instead of cycling thru the criminal element is cycling thru the legitimate community. The gangs have 400 million less, the legit people 400 million more. That 400 million is creating legit jobs where people pay taxes on their income and profits - figure another 50 million to the govt, so now the govt has 150 million extra coming in. Then there's the spin off effects. While they are there too with illegal production and sales, again at least now it's on the up and up. Legitimate leasing of production facilities instead of ruining houses for grow ops. Legitimate purchase of power instead of stealing it. Legitimate purchase of all the grow equipment. Less policing costs as production moves from illicit ot licit. Etc.

Big chunks of money moved from the illegal to the legal side of the ledger. Money for prevention and treatment of drug use. Nah, what a bad idea.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

to spell it out for those with small brains:

CO is pulling in 100 mil a year in taxes - a portion of that, I believe is mandated to be used for prevention and rehab. (Very little rehab needed for pot, so other drugs will get the most benefit here) So that's 100 mil that weren't there before that could be used for drug prevention and rehab.

WA charges 25% tax, CO is much lower. But let's say 25%. That means that there's now 400 million in pot sales that instead of cycling thru the criminal element is cycling thru the legitimate community. The gangs have 400 million less, the legit people 400 million more. That 400 million is creating legit jobs where people pay taxes on their income and profits - figure another 50 million to the govt, so now the govt has 150 million extra coming in. Then there's the spin off effects. While they are there too with illegal production and sales, again at least now it's on the up and up. Legitimate leasing of production facilities instead of ruining houses for grow ops. Legitimate purchase of power instead of stealing it. Legitimate purchase of all the grow equipment. Less policing costs as production moves from illicit ot licit. Etc.

Big chunks of money moved from the illegal to the legal side of the ledger. Money for prevention and treatment of drug use. Nah, what a bad idea.

Perfect. So why are we waiting to do so with other drugs? When do you think these states will legalize drugs like cocaine and heroin?

[herbie]

When they come to their senses?
Though I don't think there's any support for legalizing coke. You couldn't tell if the guy beside you was a junkie, but you'd sure as hell know if he was using coke.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

to spell it out for those with small brains:

CO is pulling in 100 mil a year in taxes - a portion of that, I believe is mandated to be used for prevention and rehab. (Very little rehab needed for pot, so other drugs will get the most benefit here) So that's 100 mil that weren't there before that could be used for drug prevention and rehab.

WA charges 25% tax, CO is much lower. But let's say 25%. That means that there's now 400 million in pot sales that instead of cycling thru the criminal element is cycling thru the legitimate community. The gangs have 400 million less, the legit people 400 million more. That 400 million is creating legit jobs where people pay taxes on their income and profits - figure another 50 million to the govt, so now the govt has 150 million extra coming in. Then there's the spin off effects. While they are there too with illegal production and sales, again at least now it's on the up and up. Legitimate leasing of production facilities instead of ruining houses for grow ops. Legitimate purchase of power instead of stealing it. Legitimate purchase of all the grow equipment. Less policing costs as production moves from illicit ot licit. Etc.

Big chunks of money moved from the illegal to the legal side of the ledger. Money for prevention and treatment of drug use. Nah, what a bad idea.

Perfect. So why are we waiting to do so with other drugs? When do you think these states will legalize drugs like cocaine and heroin?

Ideally, soon after pot is. However, there's not much market for either of them compared to pot. A couple of estimates involving bike gangs have suggested they make more from weed than they do from the other drugs combined.
The other drugs are niche markets with the possible exception of cocaine and it's derivatives, but marijuana isn't a niche market, it's big. Not as big as alcohol, but in Canada at least there are at least as many admitted pot smokers as there are tobacco smokers, around 17%. Add up the one's who weren't willing to admit use on any surveys and it's probably closer to 20%. Those figures only take into account those who smoke regularly, not the occasional once every month or two at a party types.

[andyt]

coke isn't all that bad. crack or crystal meth are the real bad ones. But even with crack, only 5% of people who have ever used it become long term addicts. Big diff between any of those and pot, which is far less harmful than booze.

Anyway, we've been round and round about this on this forum, nobody is changing their mind. What's for sure is the dam seems to be starting to have a lot of holes in it - doubt it will be long before it bursts. Especially as pols see the money they could be raking in while saving money on law enforcement (or redirecting resources) The excuse that we can't legalize in Canada because it's still illegal in the US is wearing thin, meanwhile those anti-pot Reformacons have made medical pot a big time commercial business. Those businesses will be pushing to get into the recreational side next, with no valid arguments why not. Soon people will wonder what all the fuss was about.

[OnTheIce]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The other drugs are niche markets with the possible exception of cocaine and it's derivatives, but marijuana isn't a niche market, it's big. Not as big as alcohol, but in Canada at least there are at least as many admitted pot smokers as there are tobacco smokers, around 17%. Add up the one's who weren't willing to admit use on any surveys and it's probably closer to 20%. Those figures only take into account those who smoke regularly, not the occasional once every month or two at a party types.

Cocaine is a 100 billion dollar a year business in the US.

Surely we can tap into that, can't we? As andy says "coke isn't all that bad" so perhaps states that have already legalized weed can look to cocaine next?