[2Cdo]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Revisionist
Feel free to look up the term "Negermusik" and the "Rhineland sterilization program" if you like.

What part of that has anything to do with the idea of a global genocide or ethnic cleansing? Note the key word being global.
Explain why their are whole units of Muslims and Indians, fighting for the Germany army?



EDIT:

Posting some pictures isn't really a great argument, it's fast and easy but it's not really an in depth argument.

Let me strike to the heart of the matter as directly as possible. Have you read any literature published by the Nazi government about their ideologies and beliefs about race and their world vision for the different races? The Nazi government had a department of race. (Ressenpolitische Amt) It's not like we need to speculate on what they said, it's written down waiting for people to read.

Between their documented actions and their own stated beliefs what else could you demand as proof? Now don't fall down the lazy trap and say but what about what they did in Germany and are you saying they didn't put people in camps? Clearly they had taken steps to secure what they believed would be their homeland for their own people. However, other than their geographic expansion they were not setting out to ethnically cleanse the whole world. They had extensive plans for the development and collaboration with the peoples and culture and nations outside of Europe.

They were setting out with a nationalist view to secure their own culture and race, which would live beside others.

Trying to whitewash the evilness of the Nazis shows what a fucking idiot you are.

[DrCaleb]

Ja! Ve taken ze coloureds und da wogs und ve put zem in uniforms und tell ze Brits to shoot zem first! Zat makes up for ze forced sterilization und death camps, Ja!?!

[BartSimpson]

A few thoughts on this topic:

1. Eugenics predated National Socialism and the concept was popular with Western liberals and socialists prior to the revelations of the Holocaust at the end of WW2. Significant advocates of eugenics included Margaret Sanger who advocated birth control and abortion as a means of exterminating the African race, and eugenics was practiced in Canada where mentally retarded and sometimes socially unfit people were forcibly sterilised or castrated to prevent them from reproducing. Like the swastika, the Nazis didn't invent eugenics, they just gave it a bad name.

2. I'm not surprised that a Jewish photographer made money by using a Jewish baby for Nazi propaganda. In a wry sort of manner, the fact of this both lends something to what the Nazis said about the Jews and it also shows the Jews were smarter than those jerks.

3. We have a pretty awesome moderation staff!

[Xort]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Trying to whitewash the evilness of the Nazis shows what a fucking idiot you are.

No whitewash of their actions, feel free to dislike or hate them for what they did. You shouldn't need to make up a false narrative.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I believe you have me confused with someone who cares what you think.

Good to see that you already know everything without having to do any fact checking. What a great scientific mind you have.

The fact is that the Nazi government wasn't as comically evil as people pretend. If you are unwilling to take a reasoned look at historical events to know and understand them, what makes you think you will be able to see the reflections in the events of today?

By refusing to see anything but a caricature of the Nazi government, you are blinding yourself to any possible lesson you might learn from them.

Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Fundamentalism are not the most dangerous beliefs in the world; Willful ignorance is.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I believe you have me confused with someone who cares what you think.

Good to see that you already know everything without having to do any fact checking. What a great scientific mind you have.

The fact is that the Nazi government wasn't as comically evil as people pretend. If you are unwilling to take a reasoned look at historical events to know and understand them, what makes you think you will be able to see the reflections in the events of today?

By refusing to see anything but a caricature of the Nazi government, you are blinding yourself to any possible lesson you might learn from them.

Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Fundamentalism are not the most dangerous beliefs in the world; Willful ignorance is.

I had family that lived in Nazi Germany; that served in the German Army; that had to hide children in the false bottom of a sofa to avoid soldiers who went door to door raping young girls. My information comes to me first hand.

How about yours? Your revisionism does not compare to the stories I heard from eyewitnesses. Nice attempt at a troll though. Troll harder next time. (History is not science, that's the mistake you made.)

Feel free now to quote me out of context or just incorrectly, if you think you need it to not look foolish.

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I had family that lived in Nazi Germany; that served in the German Army; that had to hide children in the false bottom of a sofa to avoid soldiers who went door to door raping young girls. My information comes to me first hand.

I'm unsure what if anything that has to do with the Nazi party view on other races around the word.

A fair attempt at bait, but I've already said: "...feel free to dislike or hate them for what they did."

$1:

How about yours? Your revisionism does not compare to the stories I heard from eyewitnesses. Nice attempt at a troll though. Troll harder next time. (History is not science, that's the mistake you made.)

Your story does not conflict with my statements. Their is no revisionism.

The scientific method and mind set can be applied to all inquiry.

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

I'm unsure what if anything that has to do with the Nazi party view on other races around the word.

Canada has an elected Senate, with a government that is accountable to the people using a strong Ethics Commissioner who reviews all members of Parliament's actions for hints of corruption. We don't tax capital gains, allowing for the free market to flourish, and we eliminated the GST back when gas taxes exceeded 85 cents/litre. The Government of Canada stands firmly behind it's veterans, and is more than willing to ensure their financial and medical well being after supporting Canada during its war years. It funds that using the returned $5 billion in tarriffs the US illegally claimed on our softwood lumber imports . . . at least that's how things would be if Canada's Government had lived up to it's 2006 election promises.

And that's the difference between how a political party says it will act, and how it actually acts.

Xort Xort:

Your story does not conflict with my statements. Their is no revisionism.

The scientific method and mind set can be applied to all inquiry.

My story is woefully incomplete, and conflicts with your revisionism entirely.

The mind set of scientific analysis only applies to facts and figures; things than can be quantified and repeated. It breaks down with emotions and social interactions.

[raydan]

This thread for Godwined right from the start... didn't have a chance.

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And that's the difference between how a political party says it will act, and how it actually acts.

Right so you look at both and see where they line up and where they are different.

$1:

My story is woefully incomplete, and conflicts with your revisionism entirely.

So you are saying the Nazi Germany didn't uniform and arm Muslims, Africans and Indians?

$1:

The mind set of scientific analysis only applies to facts and figures; things than can be quantified and repeated. It breaks down with emotions and social interactions.

The mental sciences would take exception to that, but non the less the topic is history. Fact and figures are very much a part of history.

Would you like me to get a pump for you so you can get the water out of the hole you are digging and keep going?

[DrCaleb]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And that's the difference between how a political party says it will act, and how it actually acts.

Right so you look at both and see where they line up and where they are different.

I underlined the parts where they are different.

Xort Xort:

$1:

My story is woefully incomplete, and conflicts with your revisionism entirely.

So you are saying the Nazi Germany didn't uniform and arm Muslims, Africans and Indians?

Did I write that? Then I didn't say it.

Xort Xort:

$1:

The mind set of scientific analysis only applies to facts and figures; things than can be quantified and repeated. It breaks down with emotions and social interactions.

The mental sciences would take exception to that, but non the less the topic is history. Fact and figures are very much a part of history.

Philosophy and Formal Logic aren't history courses. Historical facts and figures can't be used in an experiment. They can give us perspective, but they can't reveal new truths.

Xort Xort:

Would you like me to get a pump for you so you can get the water out of the hole you are digging and keep going?

Hehehe, yea. Keep thinking you are winning. Don't you have to misquote me then call me a liar based on the misquote for you to feel like you are truly winning an argument with me?

[Regina]

Xort Xort:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Revisionist
Feel free to look up the term "Negermusik" and the "Rhineland sterilization program" if you like.

What part of that has anything to do with the idea of a global genocide or ethnic cleansing? Note the key word being global.
Explain why their are whole units of Muslims and Indians, fighting for the Germany army?

EDIT:

Posting some pictures isn't really a great argument, it's fast and easy but it's not really an in depth argument.

Starting off a sentence that puts your words in other mouths doesn't fool anyone. I've never read anything that said they were going to ethnically cleanse the world, although given their track record in conquered territory during WWII it wouldn't be a stretch to think they would have wanted to.
Also your cute little propaganda pictures are nothing more than that used at the time to make the Nazis seem culturally inclusive during the war.
First off Hitler himself wrote of the Blacks in "Mein Kampf" calling them the "Rhineland Bastards" who were of mixed blood generally from German mothers and French occupational forces. German historian Prof. Reiner Pommerin wrote about what happened to these children. "I published a book in the 70s, which told the reader about the sterilization of mixed blood children. These were children who had been fathered by occupation forces - mostly French occupation forces," he said. His book, "Sterilisierung der Rheinlandbastarde. Das Schicksal einer farbigen deutschen Minderheit 1918 - 1937" ("Sterilization of the Rhineland Bastards: the fate of a colored German minority 1918 - 1937") publicized the sterilization of the Black minority in Nazi Germany. In fact there was such a small number of them in Germany that there is little support in doing research for the topic other than what has been done.

Next you trot out the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) which was Himmler's project. Hardly a fighting unit and was lead by German officers. Their total (1943-44) existance including raising numbers, training and fighting was barely a year and their total "fighting" expericnce was measured in months. It experienced muntiny and desersion throughout and by the summer of 1944 was left with no more than it's German soldiers and officers.