[andyt]

If that's true then certainly soldiers bear no responsibility for what a mess Astan became. Except the ones that get all bent out of shape when somebody dares to criticize the mission. We've had those here too.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

If that's true then certainly soldiers bear no responsibility for what a mess Astan became. Except the ones that get all bent out of shape when somebody dares to criticize the mission. We've had those here too.

Like you they are entitled to an opinion.

[andyt]

Sure, but I don't get bent out of shape for somebody holding it and try to argue they shouldn't express it, or that it's unpatriotic to hold that opinion. That's the real sleaze about this - the game the Reforacons played. And used the soldiers for it, now they discard them like dirty kleenex.

For all I know i'll be wrong that the mission was a waste of time as well. Elections certainly went off better than expected, tho I haven't really heard what happened after that. I think Astan will fall to the Taliban again or at best remain under the thumb of the warlords. But if the afhan people pull their thumbs out of their asses and stand up for having a better country, well that would be wonderful.

[desertdude]

Trust me the Afghanis cannot live peacefully for any long duration of time, soon infighting between the various factions even among the talibans will break out. Although I sincerely hope im wrong.

[Jabberwalker]

andyt andyt:

Sure, but I don't get bent out of shape for somebody holding it and try to argue they shouldn't express it, or that it's unpatriotic to hold that opinion. That's the real sleaze about this - the game the Reforacons played. And used the soldiers for it, now they discard them like dirty kleenex.

Nobody here has mentioned patriotism or a lack thereof in this thread. If that aspect of it bothers you then I would say that it's your own particuar demon. Our military is not wrapped in a flag nor has it ever been in my memory ... not in the way that you probably think, anyway.

[Gunnair]

Goober911 Goober911:

andyt andyt:

It's not volunteer forces, it's that nobody that didn't want to go to Astan didn't have to - they volunteered for the mission.

And the title of this thread is about the mission. As I said, honor the soldiers, but in my opinion the mission was a big fuckup once it expanded beyond Al Qaeda/Bin Laden.

Wrong- Once a Warning Order is given that is that- Failure to adhere results in a Courts Martial.

If one didn't want to go, one could put in their release.

[Goober911]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Goober911 Goober911:

andyt andyt:

It's not volunteer forces, it's that nobody that didn't want to go to Astan didn't have to - they volunteered for the mission.

And the title of this thread is about the mission. As I said, honor the soldiers, but in my opinion the mission was a big fuckup once it expanded beyond Al Qaeda/Bin Laden.

Wrong- Once a Warning Order is given that is that- Failure to adhere results in a Courts Martial.

If one didn't want to go, one could put in their release.

Below was the policy when a Warning Order was issued. This was policy when I was in and I doubt it changed. May have but????
Requests for Release received after a a WO was issued were suspended.
They would be actioned upon return from the mission - tasking.

[Zipperfish]

$1:

The soldiers are also carrying a specially constructed baton that holds the last Canadian flag to fly at ISAF Headquarters in Kabul.

I have one of those flags in my office!!

[Gunnair]

Goober911 Goober911:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Goober911 Goober911:

Wrong- Once a Warning Order is given that is that- Failure to adhere results in a Courts Martial.

If one didn't want to go, one could put in their release.

Below was the policy when a Warning Order was issued. This was policy when I was in and I doubt it changed. May have but????
Requests for Release received after a a WO was issued were suspended.
They would be actioned upon return from the mission - tasking.

You can put a release in any time whether it's the six month kind or the 39 day kind. However, if you really don't want to go, but don't want to release, just smoke pot before the drug test.

[2Cdo]

Gunnair Gunnair:

However, if you really don't want to go, but don't want to release, just smoke pot before the drug test.

Which has happened a couple of times during our time in Afghanistan.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

I certainly could be wrong. I'm under the impression soldiers sent to astan had to volunteer for the mission.

That was only true for soldiers in Reserve units - Regular Force soldiers had no choice. I suppose as Gunnair noted, one could leave the Forces after being given an assignment they didn't want, but I doubt too many would.

[Jabberwalker]

If that's true then certainly soldiers bear no responsibility for what a mess Astan became.

No. actually they don't. The Canadians did everything in their power to leave Afghanistan a better place that they found it. I guess that it is inherently difficult to make a shitpile look like heaven. This place was Dogpatch long before 9/11.

[Goober911]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

If that's true then certainly soldiers bear no responsibility for what a mess Astan became.

No. actually they don't. The Canadians did everything in their power to leave Afghanistan a better place that they found it. I guess that it is inherently difficult to make a shitpile look like heaven. This place was Dogpatch long before 9/11.

It was an impossible mission, poor equipment, nation building was not going to work in that hell hole. Many have tried to conquer Afghanistan.
It has been called the graveyard of empires, not quite accurate but hard to win.

[Jabberwalker]

Goober911 Goober911:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

If that's true then certainly soldiers bear no responsibility for what a mess Astan became.

No. actually they don't. The Canadians did everything in their power to leave Afghanistan a better place that they found it. I guess that it is inherently difficult to make a shitpile look like heaven. This place was Dogpatch long before 9/11.

It was an impossible mission, poor equipment, nation building was not going to work in that hell hole. Many have tried to conquer Afghanistan.
It has been called the graveyard of empires, not quite accurate but hard to win.

The Wahabi extremists set up shop there because it was a failed state. The "West" didn't create that situation, no matter how you spin it. The Madrasa that trained the 9/11 attackers took root in an essentially lawless place.

[Goober911]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Goober911 Goober911:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

If that's true then certainly soldiers bear no responsibility for what a mess Astan became.

No. actually they don't. The Canadians did everything in their power to leave Afghanistan a better place that they found it. I guess that it is inherently difficult to make a shitpile look like heaven. This place was Dogpatch long before 9/11.

It was an impossible mission, poor equipment, nation building was not going to work in that hell hole. Many have tried to conquer Afghanistan.
It has been called the graveyard of empires, not quite accurate but hard to win.

The Wahabi extremists set up shop there because it was a failed state. The "West" didn't create that situation, no matter how you spin it. The Madrasa that trained the 9/11 attackers took root in an essentially lawless place.

Even the Taliban had Osama locked down as they knew he was up to something.
As to the Wahhabi, why are we letting Wahhabi Imams, trained in Saudi into Canada.
FFn dumb move. They hated the bastards in Bosnia, well most of them did.