[Xort]

$1:

He said he tried to explain to the border officer why they didn’t have their passports and asked if they could just turn around. He said he showed them their reservation documents.

Why would we keep people and search them when they just wanted to turn around, without any real compelling reason to suspect them of a crime?

People won't respect law enforcement if they act like fucktards.

The charge of smuggling is our legal system acting like fucktards.

Gunnair Gunnair:

Since that didn't happen, I'd bet we didn't get the whole story. Betcha someone pitched a US sized hissy fit and talked himself into an arrest.

Guess you haven't been over a border in the last 20 years.

[Gunnair]

Xort Xort:

$1:

He said he tried to explain to the border officer why they didn’t have their passports and asked if they could just turn around. He said he showed them their reservation documents.

Why would we keep people and search them when they just wanted to turn around, without any real compelling reason to suspect them of a crime?

People won't respect law enforcement if they act like fucktards.

The charge of smuggling is our legal system acting like fucktards.

Gunnair Gunnair:

Since that didn't happen, I'd bet we didn't get the whole story. Betcha someone pitched a US sized hissy fit and talked himself into an arrest.

Guess you haven't been over a border in the last 20 years.

Guess I have.

[Guy_Fawkes]

I don't think we have the full story, the way I see this being reported is someone saw chatter on a NRA message board and worked backwards. So with the actual incident being the last thing which was reported, I think there are a few things the reporters were not able to catch.

[herbie]

Regina Regina:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

A little wisdom on the part of your border jerks would've been fine, too. The guy wanted to turn around and they should have just let him turn around and let the US Border Patrol arrest him for smuggling a gun into the US.

Believe me, your shit heads would be every bit the jerks and pressed an issue. I know a guy who spent the day locked in a room because he had an orange in his lunch bag. He now gets the full Monty when he tries to cross which he has to to often with his business.

On our way to a concert in Seattle many years ago one girl's boyfriend couldn't "prove" he wssn't ONE of the nine Doug A. Johnsons (not real name) from Ontario that just moved to get a different address and sneak across. Let the rest of us go after an hour of 'smuggling aliens' threats and locked him in a room.
He later told us after 2-3 hours a guard came in and complained how the room stunk of goddam longhaired hippie, and opened the window wide as went.
Said he was so scared it took him an hour to gather the nerve to jump out and run to the Canadian side. The US guards were pointing at him an laughing....
but no Gourts, no Immigration people were tied up, no money wasted. Ass-holic, but effective.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

So let me guess this straight. Our border guards are assholes for "over-reacting" to an undeclared weapon but US border guards having shit-hemorrhages over chocolate eggs with a toy inside is a perfectly rational response. Check.

I know many Americans talk about how "friendly" and "welcoming" their border guards and they may well be, to returning Americans. Hell, I've never had a hassle coming back across the border into Canada, even with a half open bottle of vodka in my back seat. And no, I wasn't drinking and driving. I've also come back from Jamaica with 14 more litres of alcohol than I was supposed to be allowed, duty free. So I could easily say based on those experiences that Canadian border guards are welcoming and friendly to everyone.

[Xort]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

So let me guess this straight. Our border guards are assholes for "over-reacting" to an undeclared weapon but US border guards having shit-hemorrhages over chocolate eggs with a toy inside is a perfectly rational response. Check.

I don't think either is proper, but we have crafted out laws and regulations in such a way that rational and reasonable reactions are not permitted.

It's too hard to only hire people able to make sound judgements so they remove the ability to make any judgement.

Frankly we should have an option to return back over a land crossing and stop all border questioning and detention unless the guard has probable cause at least equal to that required for the police to detain someone.

The examples you give are both stupid but for different reasons. Can't transport a handgun in Canada without written notice, but I can walk around with an unloaded semi automatic military surplus battle rifle.

Can't buy a food product in the US that has a toy inside it because you might choke on it. But if you put the toy outside of the food product, but in the same wrapper, that's safe and no one could choke on that.

~

In both situations our laws and methods no longer serve the public's justice.

[Guy_Fawkes]

So say you have a guy who wanders up to the border who is a smuggler of weapons/drugs/people, and has gotten through many times because he has never been checked. This time he goes through it looks like they are going to stop him. Before they can get very far said smuggler decides he just wants to turn back. The guards smile and turn him around back. The next day the smuggler comes to the border and gets through with his drugs/guns/people because he wasnt subjected to a through search.

Now does that sound like a safe policy?

Yes I understand that this guy is not a gun smuggler, that is established, but if he had been and was allowed to turn back would Canada be safer in the long run?

[Prof_Chomsky]

I feel bad for this guy. I don't support people carrying handguns for protection, but this guy was clearly lost.

On the flip side though, I was once lost out west and stumbled on a US border. I also tried to turn around while still in the line BEFORE the border, and was detained and searched. They found 1,000$ on me and questioned me for 3 hours. I couldn't believe it. The money was for the road trip I was on and was below the 10K I needed to declare. But the US guard who more than a little resembled Stone Cold Steve Austin made a point of tearing my car apart before letting me go.

[Jabberwalker]

It's pretty unusual to see Canadian border people who are not just interested in collecting tariff revenue. The U.S. patrols the border for their national security. Canada patrols the border to catch revenue cheats.

[DrCaleb]

$1:

DiNatale said he normally carries his Bersa .380 handgun for self-defence. But a few days before the road trip, he moved the gun from his car to his wife’s BMW because he was on his way to an appointment at the Fort Knox military post and didn’t want it to cause any issues.

That was the fishy part for me. He had the good sense to take the gun from his car and put it in the other to avoid problems entering a military base; but forgets about it when crossing an international border to a country he knows has restrictive laws about handguns?

[bootlegga]

The guy isn't a very responsible gun owner if he can't remember he has a handgun in the car he's driving, especially when specifically asked by the customs agent if he had one. Given that the US goes apeshit over marijuana paraphenalia (as well as Kinder Eggs and other items), IMHO it's simply a case of ignorance of the law is no excuse.

As some have suggested, I bet this guy talked himself into trouble, not the other way around. Even if CBSA was a bit over-zealous in his opinion, tough luck.

When you cross an international border, you NEED to respect the laws of the country you are entering, not the one you come from, PERIOD.

[Jabberwalker]

Maybe, he was confused because it was the wrong gun in the wrong place. THAT may have been his garage gun and the one in the garage may have been his wife's glove compartment gun, which she substituted for the downstairs guest room gun because it was a better color match.

[Xort]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

So say you have a guy who wanders up to the border who is a smuggler of weapons/drugs/people, and has gotten through many times because he has never been checked. This time he goes through it looks like they are going to stop him. Before they can get very far said smuggler decides he just wants to turn back. The guards smile and turn him around back. The next day the smuggler comes to the border and gets through with his drugs/guns/people because he wasnt subjected to a through search.

Well given that his destination wasn't Canada and he just wanted to turn around it seems reasonable to let people turn around. Many border crossings have no way to get out after some normally poorly marked exit.

I could be wrong but what this sounds like is he got stuck on the road following his GPS and no way to get out and asked if he could turn around at the post. Guards then decided he needed to have his vehicle searched.

$1:

Now does that sound like a safe policy?

If the police have no evidence or reasonable suspicion to search someone and they wish to turn around I think that's fair. For a vehicle crossing they should have exits and turn arounds at the very last possible location.

$1:

Yes I understand that this guy is not a gun smuggler, that is established, but if he had been and was allowed to turn back would Canada be safer in the long run?

I don't think Canada would be less safe if you had the option to turn around right before you cross the border, or if the person asking the questions seems to be going off the deep end of being reasonable. We can't make the laws and regulations work with all the employees so unless they have cause to hold and search you, turning around should be an option.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Xort Xort:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

So say you have a guy who wanders up to the border who is a smuggler of weapons/drugs/people, and has gotten through many times because he has never been checked. This time he goes through it looks like they are going to stop him. Before they can get very far said smuggler decides he just wants to turn back. The guards smile and turn him around back. The next day the smuggler comes to the border and gets through with his drugs/guns/people because he wasnt subjected to a through search.

Well given that his destination wasn't Canada and he just wanted to turn around it seems reasonable to let people turn around. Many border crossings have no way to get out after some normally poorly marked exit.

I could be wrong but what this sounds like is he got stuck on the road following his GPS and no way to get out and asked if he could turn around at the post. Guards then decided he needed to have his vehicle searched.

$1:

Now does that sound like a safe policy?

If the police have no evidence or reasonable suspicion to search someone and they wish to turn around I think that's fair.

The police aren't the ones at the border. Quite frankly, the border guards would search every vehicle coming across if it was feasible to do so.

I also find it highly unlikely that he didn't realize he was approaching one of the ten busiest border crossings. I find that fishy. It's not like he was on some class B backwater highway with no place to turn around and a little customs shack on the border.

[Xort]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

The police aren't the ones at the border. Quite frankly, the border guards would search every vehicle coming across if it was feasible to do so.

They are law enforcement and have all the powers of the police and then some. Their regulatory laws are based in both our criminal justice and ministry regulation.

$1:

I also find it highly unlikely that he didn't realize he was approaching one of the ten busiest border crossings. I find that fishy. It's not like he was on some class B backwater highway with no place to turn around and a little customs shack on the border.

Following a GPS in a place you don't know well when the GPS does something silly can get you into all sorts of places you don't want to go.

Anyway why do you find it fishy? What possible reason do you think he had for crossing the border when his objective was on his side of the border? You say fishy, what is your logic other than it's a busy crossing everyone should just know all the roads and when you can turn off and when you are stuck?

In Edmonton their is a bridge that's too low for trucks to cross, it's clearly marked with warning signs, and has a turn off. Yet every year their are about 10ish cases of trucks either missing the turn off and end up trying to back up a hill into heavy traffic to get back to the turn off, or they totally miss the warnings and take the top off their trucks.

Would you think those drivers are doing something fishy?

I think if you get stuck in a border line, you should be able to say, "I just want to turn around I didn't want to come down this road." Then turn around.