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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:58 pm
 


It looks to me that they want sanctions lifted and everything else is status quo.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:15 pm
 


xerxes xerxes:
Here's hoping that the talks can get back on track after Israel scuppered them yet again.


Right, it's all Israel's fault, when it was France demanding harsher sanctions, while the United States was more than willing to fold for absolutely no return from Iran. Yep.

Did you read the article, or did you just assume it was all Israel's fault?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:17 pm
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
xerxes xerxes:
Here's hoping that the talks can get back on track after Israel scuppered them yet again.


Right, it's all Israel's fault, when it was France demanding harsher sanctions, while the United States was more than willing to fold for absolutely no return from Iran. Yep.

Did you read the article, or did you just assume it was all Israel's fault?



"Blame the Jews" is the conventional reaction to just about everything. It is an ancient, time honoured tradition.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:19 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
so you think they are genuine about their desire for peace, yet doubt their stated intentions to wipe wipe Israel off of the map? Bizarre


That was the last guy. The new guy, Rouhani, is striking much more conciliatory tone than before.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:22 pm
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
xerxes xerxes:
Here's hoping that the talks can get back on track after Israel scuppered them yet again.


Right, it's all Israel's fault, when it was France demanding harsher sanctions, while the United States was more than willing to fold for absolutely no return from Iran. Yep.

Did you read the article, or did you just assume it was all Israel's fault?


I read it in this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/10/iran-nuclear-talks-at-risk


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:28 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Argument that the entire world has to scrape and bow to an imperialistic religious fundamentalist wanker like Benjamin Netanyahu because, y'know, Holocaust? check


Ahhh, I see. Man Israel has really been waging imperialistic wars since the Netanyahu administration. Yep, Greater Israel has never been bigger since its conquest of...wait, shit, that never fucking happened. I wonder why? Oh, a right wing Israeli doesn't automatically mean he's a Fundamentalist Jew bent on conquering the Middle East? Well shit.

Oh, and Prime Minister Netanyahu, who lives in the region where countries actively rally its people for the destruction of his home, actually takes those threats more seriously than armchair diplomats continents away? What? What a wanker he is, for actually putting some credence in the things his enemies say and do. Man he really should just do whatever the Americans want.

Oh, like when he released hundreds of terrorist prisoners in the ungrateful hands of the Palestinians, who celebrated them like fucking heroes even though we in the West would quite literally flip shit if it happened here, to appease both the Americans and the Palestinians, only for him to get absolutely nothing in return for it?

But right, details and context goes to die on the Internet. Netayahu is just a fundamentalist asshole who wants Israel in a state of constant, total war. All of his neighbors have nothing but peaceful intentions. Just ignore when they call for the death of all JOOOOOOOOOOOOS and the destruction of Israel.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:38 pm
 


xerxes xerxes:
commanderkai commanderkai:
xerxes xerxes:
Here's hoping that the talks can get back on track after Israel scuppered them yet again.


Right, it's all Israel's fault, when it was France demanding harsher sanctions, while the United States was more than willing to fold for absolutely no return from Iran. Yep.

Did you read the article, or did you just assume it was all Israel's fault?


I read it in this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/10/iran-nuclear-talks-at-risk


Two things. First, this new guy isn't really that different from the old guy. He puts up a nice face for the West, while the same bullshit is spoken back in Iran. They're both still the puppets for the Ayatollah back in Tehran. They're speaking more nicely with the West in the hope that the West will just believe them at face value. Thankfully, France didn't buy it.

And of course Israel is furious. The Obama administration came up with a plan showed to the Israelis in Jerusalem, but in Geneva, the Americans had something totally different, and Israel was blindsided. Israel used its political leverage and diplomatic assets, because, hey, it's not just an American puppet, and the French, with similar concerns, agreed. Israel itself had no direct leverage to stop the deal. Now, unsurprisingly, Israel is actually going to carry out its foreign policy to prevent the lifting of sanctions against a country that still actively desires its destruction.

Seriously, just because the Obama administration said "Just trust us" to Israel, doesn't exactly mean Israel is going to just blindly follow the Obama administration's lead, especially with Kerry's very questionable remarks about a two state solution as of late.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:53 pm
 


Netanyahu, who stuck his thumb in the eye of three different US Presidents who wanted him to stop settlement expansions into territory that was designated for a future Palestinian state. And who allied himself with the worst hardcore fundamentalist right-wing radicals to form a coalition government. And who regularly pulls as many strings as possible in Washington DC to sabotage any diplomatic efforts the American administrations have tried to make in the area. And who regularly calls for the US and/or NATO to do the dirty work for Israel against Iran, up to and including unwarranted and unjustifiable air strikes and then, presumably, a land invasion. And who went in front of the UN with this and expected to be taken seriously with his Chicken Little routine over Iran:

Image

1) Israel has an absolute right to defend itself against any attack;
2) Israel, which has 200 nuclear warheads of its own and one of the largest and most modern military forces on the planet, does not have the right to expect the US or the rest of the world to do the fighting for them in the absence of a legitimate threat;
3) Israel is legally and morally obligated to adhere to international agreements that it's a signatory to in developing a homeland for the Palestinians; whether any of us actually like the Palestinians (I don't, I think they're fools led by a bunch of self-sabotaging terrorist scum) is kind of irrelevant;
4) Israel has no right whatsoever to sabotage attempts by the United States, the benefactor without whom Israel would not even exist, to bring some kind of lasting stability to the area.

If you're so fucking gung-ho to fight Iran for Israel then go join the US military. I'd suggest joining the IDF, but it's a tad obvious that when the time comes to zap Iran that Netanyahu's Israel won't be anywhere near any of the fighting.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:40 pm
 


:|


Last edited by Public_Domain on Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:01 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Netanyahu, who stuck his thumb in the eye of three different US Presidents who wanted him to stop settlement expansions into territory that was designated for a future Palestinian state.


Oh you mean Israel approving construction projects in East Jerusalem? Generally, a large number of those "settlement" expansions relate to East Jerusalem, something Israel has never been willing to give away for a Palestinian state. Considering the actions of the Arab armies in 48 and 67, I honestly don't blame them.

I will laugh in the face of anybody who thinks Israel will willingly trade away any portion of Jerusalem or her suburbs to the Palestinians.

On top of this...settlement construction in the West Bank has been defacto policy long before Netanyahu, and will stay that way long after. This is basically a bipartisan issue in that country. After the hilariously sad results of the Gaza pullout, there is absolutely no motivation for Israel to stop.

$1:
And who allied himself with the worst hardcore fundamentalist right-wing radicals to form a coalition government.


Aka the nature of Israeli politics. This is how their political system works. That doesn't make him an imperialistic religious fundamentalist whackjob.

$1:
And who regularly pulls as many strings as possible in Washington DC to sabotage any diplomatic efforts the American administrations have tried to make in the area.


Israel uses its political influence to push their agenda? NAWWWWWWWWWWW. HOW UNPRECEDENTED IN INTERNATIONAL POLITICS. :roll:

You're kidding, right? The Obama administration wants to put a hilariously weak deal with Iran, something that even France (which, last I checked, isn't operated by an "imperialistic religious fundamentalist wanker")rejects for being too weak, and yet, you criticize Israel for putting political pressure against the Obama administration over this, even though you probably had absolutely no issue with the Obama administration putting political pressure on Israel, right?

$1:
And who regularly calls for the US and/or NATO to do the dirty work for Israel against Iran, up to and including unwarranted and unjustifiable air strikes and then, presumably, a land invasion.


Unwarranted? Really? You don't see a nuclear capable Iran as a threat? Well, since Obama doesn't take it seriously, you don't either. When Syria is a big fucking deal to Obama, you make it a big fucking deal. How interesting. No matter.

So, you don't think Iran, who is more than happy to rattle sabres, threaten the closing the Strait of Hormuz, is actively funding and supplying terrorist organizations, is not a threat. The same people you wanted to bomb to no end a few months ago is being supplied by Iran. No, there's no justification here for any sort of air strikes.

$1:
1) Israel has an absolute right to defend itself against any attack;
2) Israel, which has 200 nuclear warheads of its own and one of the largest and most modern military forces on the planet, does not have the right to expect the US or the rest of the world to do the fighting for them in the absence of a legitimate threat;


You keep saying "legitimate threat" like if Iran hasn't proven itself as a hostile power. I'm extremely curious by this. You really, really think Iran has done nothing to show hostility against Israeli and American interests? Really? You don't view Iran having significant nuclear weapons capacity as a significant threat?

$1:
3) Israel is legally and morally obligated to adhere to international agreements that it's a signatory to in developing a homeland for the Palestinians; whether any of us actually like the Palestinians (I don't, I think they're fools led by a bunch of self-sabotaging terrorist scum) is kind of irrelevant;


Israel has shown itself willing. Again, and I will keep beating people over the head with this. Gaza. If the unilateral pullout of a significant portion what might become a Palestinian state was not a serious sign that Israel was willing, then what is?

Israel, JUST RECENTLY, released dozens upon dozens of terrorist prisoner scum to the Palestinians, as a goodwill gesture. Pray tell, what have the Palestinians done? Not blown up any buses lately? What a fucking achievement.

$1:
4) Israel has no right whatsoever to sabotage attempts by the United States, the benefactor without whom Israel would not even exist, to bring some kind of lasting stability to the area.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That was rather funny. You really think Israel wouldn't exist without the United States? Please. When has the United States ever militarily intervened in any war between Israel and the Arab states? When did the United States take out the nuclear programs of the Arab states? The answer is not once.

Israel can use its political resources to further its agenda, no different than any other country. No doubt Canada is doing the same exact thing over the Keystone XL pipeline too. Ahh, but when Israel does it, it's bad. Right. Gotta love these international pol

$1:
If you're so fucking gung-ho to fight Iran for Israel then go join the US military. I'd suggest joining the IDF, but it's a tad obvious that when the time comes to zap Iran that Netanyahu's Israel won't be anywhere near any of the fighting.


Sigh, do you live in an alternate universe where the Americans directly intervened to protect Israel? Because, back in reality...it never actually happened. The closest example is in the Yom Kippur War, when Israel was resupplied by the Americans (like how the Soviets resupplied the Arabs, aka Cold War politics), but Israel already turned the tide by the time the supplies first arrived.

On top of this, Israel has historically taken unilateral action against Iraq's nuclear program in the 80s, and Syria's in the 00s.

Ah, but right. Since I'm so gung-ho to fight Iran (I'm not, but I also don't think weakening sanctions against Iran after they did fuck all to deserve it, but, whatever. Assume what you wish), I'll go join the US Air Force. Much like I assume you'll be joining the IDF because of how much you wanted America and NATO to bomb Syria. Last I checked, Israel has dropped more bombs on Syria than the United States. When do you leave?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:42 pm
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
It's entirely possible that Iran had no intention of forgoing a nuclear arsenal anyway and it was all about hoodwinking the Western powers into dropping trade sanctions. There wasn't going to be a deal.



It certainly is.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:44 pm
 


xerxes xerxes:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
so you think they are genuine about their desire for peace, yet doubt their stated intentions to wipe wipe Israel off of the map? Bizarre


That was the last guy. The new guy, Rouhani, is striking much more conciliatory tone than before.


Beware the smiling, they are often backstabbers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:00 pm
 


commanderkai commanderkai:
Image


tldr, assumption that it's just another long-winded pro-war rant would probably born out by closer examination but effort would be as pointless as counting pieces of corn in a random turd, armchair warriors usually fail poisoned by their own fairy tales, get better results trying to explain quantum theory to a half-deaf dog than to engage in this mess of neo-con nonsense anymore


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:10 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
tldr, assumption that it's just another long-winded pro-war rant would probably born out by closer examination but effort would be as pointless as counting pieces of corn in a random turd, armchair warriors usually fail poisoned by their own fairy tales, get better results trying to explain quantum theory to a half-deaf dog than to engage in this mess of neo-con nonsense anymore


Remember that statement about context and details go to die on the Internet? You're a prime example, Thanos. You should be proud of your own hypocrisy. Give a round of applause to yourself.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:58 am
 


Tarzan say "Israel good, Iran bad." {farts, scratches ass}


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