[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Good. The state can butt out of the bedroom.

Forgive me if I lol'd at that!

[peck420]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Well, the language of the majority opinion sets up for the polygamists (Mormons, pagans, and muslims) to sue for their marriage rights.

I imagine we'll see one of those lawsuits before the court within a year or two.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

And that would be a bad thing?

I may not agree with other's personal choices, but I think we can all agree on what happens when that shit is forced underground.

How many 12 year old's are going to be getting indoctrinated and impregnated if it becomes legal? Far less then when it happens hidden in the back country.

As long as all parties involved are consenting adults, I could care less what you do to make yourself happy. It is none of my business.

[xerxes]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Good. The state can butt out of the bedroom.

Forgive me if I lol'd at that!

Pun intended no doubt.

[Gunnair]

peck420 peck420:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Well, the language of the majority opinion sets up for the polygamists (Mormons, pagans, and muslims) to sue for their marriage rights.

I imagine we'll see one of those lawsuits before the court within a year or two.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

And that would be a bad thing?

I may not agree with other's personal choices, but I think we can all agree on what happens when that shit is forced underground.

How many 12 year old's are going to be getting indoctrinated and impregnated if it becomes legal? Far less then when it happens hidden in the back country.

As long as all parties involved are consenting adults, I could care less what you do to make yourself happy. It is none of my business.

Agreed. Not the state's business.

[CanadianJeff]

A perfect example of how giving people more freedom rather then less is sometimes the absolute best and most American way of solving an issue.

This is perhaps in some ways the most "American" thing to happen in the states in the last 10 years. It's a true standing up for the constitution.

[Public_Domain]

[Brenda]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I hate that you can chorkle and cheer how 'American' this is when America has been and still is so far behind this issue that they get lumped with third world countries for it

No kidding.

This shouldn't have been an issue anymore 10, 12 years ago. AND, calling themselves 'the land of the free'... They should have been the first in the world to have made it legal.

[westmanguy]

Bart,

I say this with complete sincerity: you're smarter than the arguments you're putting forward.

We see eye to eye a hell of a lot more than the posts of yours I read that I disagree with. Having bin on this forum, on and off, for over 5 years now, I've always enjoyed reading your unique insights and getting to hear about your background a bit. It sounds like you're well travelled and have experienced a lot highs and lows in life which make you a good judge of character and reality.

That being the case, I do not view you as being an individual closed off from the outside world, from interaction with your peers, co-workers, out networking circles, loved ones, etc. You don't come off to me as a man isolated from common sense and empathy.

That being said, I went to say right from the outset please do not take my tone to be condescending or arrogant. I am only 21. I know I don't have all the answers and I know I have a hell of a lot more to learn in life. But I have learned the hard lesson, from a young age, that one should develop opinions and hold judgments based on their direct interaction and experience with their fellow man -- not what they're told to believe from the TV, pulpit or a book. Those platforms can inform us and give us food for thought but regardless of left-leaning or right-leaning, their influences must be balanced with critical analysis based on our own local experiences.

So I ask you: stripping aside whatever your political and religious credo may be, what are your direct day-to-day life experiences like with LGBT individuals? Do you have openly gay co-workers, family members, etc.? How do they live their lives? How do they treat you? This is the greater and larger question to think about.

Can I assume we agree that for most individuals, their sexual orientation is not a choice? Who would choose to be gay in a religious conservative family that they fear might disown them or never accept them? Who chooses to feel second class and worthless in God's eyes? Who chooses to hear their fellow teammates in the gym locker room insult each other with the term "fag" and "Don't be gay" as a way to inflate one's masculinity?

I've bin through all this. I've bin through 15 years of dedicated attendance at my town's Baptist Church, Sunday school, 4 years at Bible Camp. I've bin through sitting in gym class and having guys I thought of as good friends jokingly poke fun at each other as being lesser for "stereotypically gay" tendencies. I may be an unknown through a computer screen, but believe me when I say, I didn't choose to feel that my only options in life were:

(1) Commit to a life of celibacy to secure my eternal salvation through Christ and resign myself to never experiencing the joy of a loving committed relationship.
(2) Attempt to embark on straight relationships that I knew could never sexually be formidable.
(3) Pursue committed same-sex relationships but destine myself to eternal damnation.

All 3 options left me utterly and severely depressed. I was suicidal at my lowest stage and I, myself as a young boy full of potential and intelligence was casting my life into one of darkness. I ate through my depression and stress. I tipped the scales at 215lbs. in the fall of Grade 10.

Then something changed. I realized that my faith, my upbringing, my politics didn't have to be in opposition. I realized that God above me does not make mistakes in His design. He designs each and every one of his children with a purpose and a reason for being. When I accepted that I realized that my Christian faith was not at odds with who I was as a gay man. I still hold to my own personal sexual morality. I don't sleep around. I denounce the notion gay men are promiscuous whores and point to the fact that men in general are hyper-sexual beings in their teens/20s regardless of orientation. Women tend to be more relationship oriented and can buffer straight men's desire for sex from the outset. While when its two men the barriers to sex are naturally lesser. Less emotion is attached in our gender, in a general sense. That being said, I don't judge others for their life choices but personally choose to reserver intimacy for within a committed relationship (don't have to be married, but it has to be steady and we got to be in a relationship).

My Christian upbringing still informs that point of view, regardless of my sexuality. Sex is something that enhances love and passion and caring about another person. I've done the one night stands in first-year. They left me cold and I didn't like that feeling.

Anyways, when I realized that my faith and my sexuality weren't in opposition I gained the courage to come out to my brother, then my mother, then finally my father over the course of 6 months when I was 17/18 years old. Then I came out, (just by telling a friend who I gave permission to leak to others) in the last term of Grade 12 before graduating. My owning who I was. By choosing the middle path, I regained my confidence and my raison d'être. I lost 50 pounds in a year. My fitness obsession continues today. I love the confidence and feeling of control and momentum that my running gives me. I won't give up on it.

Coming out changed my life. Not because being gay really is that big of a deal. But because I realized I could be a multi-faceted individual and didn't have to limit myself. I realize many gay guys are predisposed with the obsession of the LGBT sub-culture and are activists and fully embrace the cliches. To each their own I say.

Not all gay men are flamboyant femme fatales. Their is a great diversity. Most of my friends had no clue until I told them. I just want to live my life. I want the same thing my parents dreamed for me when they thought I was straight now that I'm gay. I want a spouse, I want kids. I want to endow my values and dreams on a future generation (may it be adopted or other).

Marriage equality is about fostering a society that says people like me are no different. We are equal. We did not choose this different path. We were born this way. Its about children too. Same-sex couples have kids. Can't stop that. What does it say to those young children when the state tells them that their parents are lesser? That their family is not worthy of equal status?

This is a no brainer Bart, and I just implore you to open your heart a bit and think more about the people you know in your life rather than the politics and preaching you may read or feel about it.

[raydan]

Nice to be reminded every once in the while that gay people are, except for one little thing, so similar to me and everybody else. Not only that, they also seem to want to same things in life.

Thanks for that, Westmanguy.

[Lemmy]

Ditto. I've never understood why anyone cares what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. One's preference of sex act has absolutely nothing to do with one's character. I'm not defined by my Little Bo Peep costume.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Ditto. I've never understood why anyone cares what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. One's preference of sex act has absolutely nothing to do with one's character. I'm not defined by my Little Bo Peep costume.

Pics, or it didn't happen.

[Lemmy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Pics, or it didn't happen.

Check your wife's cellphone.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Pics, or it didn't happen.

Check your wife's cellphone.

Caleb's wife caught you with the sheep?

[herbie]

Whah in thuh ole days I never even knew a homasekshul. Since they legalized SSM in Canada thay seem to be breedin' like flies!

[stratos]

$1:

Ditto. I've never understood why anyone cares what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. One's preference of sex act has absolutely nothing to do with one's character. I'm not defined by my Little Bo Peep costume.

This has never been about what one does in the bedroom what it has always been is about the benifits one gets from being married. GLBT have been able do what they want in the bedroom for a while now. This is all about healthcare benifits and tax write offs (deductions) along with some other benifits that just dont come to mind right now.