[jj2424]

QBall QBall:

Flying in western Canada is not lucrative. You already have Westjet and Air Canada firmly established. Porter has always been about servicing people in the GTA and those looking for an alternative when flying to Toronto, and they are VERY good at what they do. I hope they succeed in the future plans but I fear the lefty nutjobs on Toronto city council might throw a tantrum in order to block this.

Not lucrative? Let me guess you live in Toronto?

Why do you think YYC will be doubled in size by the end of 2014? It will be the same size as YVR.

because we all take the bus....lol

[Regina]

I think he means routes outside the main hubs aren't lucrative. Flying a full bus from Calgary to Vancouver will make more money for them than one 10% full from Calgary to Grande Prairie. Westjet has also done well because they use only one type of aircraft and stayed away from small cities.
When they introduce the Q400's you're going to see another shift where they will use it for the small load short routes and connect them to their large load centers like Vancouver and Calgary. Your jet service in the west will change.

[bootlegga]

Interesting read on fare increases and airline mergers;

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/where- ... 06883.html

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Yeah, too bad they didn't build a bridge to allow traffic to travel to and park on the island. Oh wait a minute...

That doesn't solve the traffic problem of cars driving through the neighbourhood to get to the island, which is why the bridge was cancelled in the first place.

$1:

The casino will be on the CNE grounds, which is about 1.5 Km away (who's going to park at the foot of Bathurst to go to the CNE?). Plus the mayor doesn't have the ability to say whether one is going in or not. He has one vote. Council votes to allow it or not. Nice try though

Trust me, I live on Queens Quay. They park wherever they can and they will park for free on a residential street if it sames them money. And of course they drive through the residential streets that surround the Exhibition grounds regardless because of all the traffic congestion that is throughout the whole area in every direction. Here's hoping Council hands the Mayor another defeat.

$1:

Who said anything about 24/7 operations? Plus even if for some reason there were night flight at Billy Bishop you can restrict them to takeoffs towards the lake or landings from the lake.

Well once you allow jets Air Canada, Westjet, and anyone else will go to court to demand airport access. That's what happened when Porter first started operating there. Better to just keep the jet restriction in place as is.

It should not be lost on anyone that when Porter first started operations, the so-called "Lefty Nutjobs" accurately predicted at the time that Porter or another carrier would try to use it a foot in the door for jet traffic, which Porter strongly denied at the time. "The island isn't big enough for jets" Porter said. "The Tripartite Agreement governing the airport doesn't allow jets" they said. "Don't be abusrd," they said. So the "Lefty nut-jobs" have been sage and accurate while Porter has proven itself a liar.

The idea of large commercial jets operating from island airport is even more outrageous when you think of the airport's history. The Tripartite Agreement(TPA) states that the only commercial flights must be done using STOL (Short Take-Off and Landing)Aircraft, for reasons of noise abatement and safety. STOL aircraft are typically small prop aircraft (much smaller than Porter's current Q400). The TPA also said that although the DASH-8 does not meet the requirements of STOL designation, that particular airplane would be considered STOL for the purposes of the TPA due to what was still exceptional takeoff/landing performance and the fact that it was fast replacing the DASH-7 STOL aircraft. The Q400 that Porter flies is far, far larger than the DASH-8 and has nowhere near the performance of the DASH-8 but the overall geometry of the plane is based on the DASH-8, scaled-up for size. Bombardier and the Port Authority were able to get a favourable opinion that the Q400 is a DASH-8, based on the fact that it is the same pilot Type Rating - even though this has nothing to do with the needs and purpose of the terms of the TPA.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Porter Airlines likely angling for takeover by bigger rival, analysts say

Financial Post
Scott Deveau | 13/04/17 | Last Updated: 13/04/18 8:09 AM ET
More from Scott Deveau | @scottdeveau

Porter Airlines’ surprise move to start flying jets off Toronto Island has left several industry observers speculating its primary motivation is actually to solicit a takeover bid from one of its larger rivals, Air Canada or, more likely, WestJet.

Such a move would not be without precedent.

......

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... eculation/

Well if it's not going to become the 3rd airline after all why the hell should anyone support it?

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

Porter Airlines likely angling for takeover by bigger rival, analysts say

Financial Post
Scott Deveau | 13/04/17 | Last Updated: 13/04/18 8:09 AM ET
More from Scott Deveau | @scottdeveau

Porter Airlines’ surprise move to start flying jets off Toronto Island has left several industry observers speculating its primary motivation is actually to solicit a takeover bid from one of its larger rivals, Air Canada or, more likely, WestJet.

Such a move would not be without precedent.

......

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... eculation/

Well if it's not going to become the 3rd airline after all why the hell should anyone support it?

Either way, it's a win-win.

Let's get that runway extended and the jets in the air!

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Let's get that runway extended and the jets in the air!

...Yeah...from Pearson!

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

Let's get that runway extended and the jets in the air!

...Yeah...from Pearson!

Jets will be flying in an out of BB Airport...just a matter of time. Sooner the better!

[BeaverFever]

Nah. Bet it never happens.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Nah. Bet it never happens.

Looks like you're in the minority, Beav....

$1:

Two-thirds of Torontonians support Porter Airlines' plans to fly Bombardier CS100 aircraft from Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport. This result is based on an unprecedented public opinion survey of 19,500 people, which is the largest-ever sample size for a publicly-released poll in Toronto.

A summary of the results are as follows:

• When asked, "Do you support allowing jets to fly out of the airport if they make a comparable amount of noise to the turboprops currently being flown from the Island Airport?", 66.2 per cent supported these plans, 22.3 per cent were opposed and 11.5 per cent undecided or unsure.

• When asked, "Do you support lengthening the runway if the area currently used by boats will not be changed?", 62.5 per cent supported these plans, 22.3 per cent were opposed and 15.2 per cent undecided or unsure.

• When asked, "Should Toronto City Council allow jets to fly out of the Toronto Island Airport?", 51.3 per cent supported these plans, 28.7 per cent were opposed and 20.0 per cent undecided or unsure.

http://skiesmag.com/news/articles/18742 ... f-cs1.html

Let's start building!

[bootlegga]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Either way, it's a win-win.

Let's get that runway extended and the jets in the air!

I'd say it depends on cost - to extend it that long might cost a small fortune - and based on Google Maps, it doesn't look like there is nearly enough space to do it. If they have to extend the island to facilitate jet landings, that could be a very costly addition.

Not only that, but other airports around the world built man-made islands have a nasty habit of sinking into the water (like Osaka's Kansai Airport). The miscalculation cost the airport $3.3 Billion.

Having said all that, I'm a big fan of downtown airports over ones scattered dozens of kms away from city centres.

[Lemmy]

bootlegga bootlegga:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Either way, it's a win-win.

Let's get that runway extended and the jets in the air!

I'd say it depends on cost - to extend it that long might cost a small fortune - and based on Google Maps, it doesn't look like there is nearly enough space to do it. If they have to extend the island to facilitate jet landings, that could be a very costly addition.

Not only that, but other airports around the world built man-made islands have a nasty habit of sinking into the water (like Osaka's Kansai Airport). The miscalculation cost the airport $3.3 Billion.

Having said all that, I'm a big fan of downtown airports over ones scattered dozens of kms away from city centres.

The bigger problem with the Island airport is getting to it. The convenience advantage of using Billy Bishop will be erased if the number of flights and passengers increases. It's not an advantage to flying into Toronto Island if you get bottlenecked on the island. Toronto quashed the idea of a fixed-link to the island 10 years ago (and likely would again). Without that, there's no way to expand the airport without greatly reducing convenience for travellers.

Also, if Bishop was expanded to allow jets, other airlines would demand to use the facility as well, further pressuring the transportation network to and from the island. Better to let Porter continue to enjoy the competitive advantage flying Q-400s off the island and keep jet traffic at Pearson. If Porter decides to expand into the jet-powered business, they're still going to enjoy that advantage of flying out of downtown for their short-haul flights.

[BeaverFever]

Yeah everyone's always a fan of shitting in someone else's back yard, nobody wants shit in their own backyard.

The Poll was commissioned by Porter and poses lots of loaded questions too...for example by first "priming" the respondent with a question about lower airfares and increased competition, which won't happen.

As I said before and will say again, I'm a fan of Porter, Billy Bishop Airport, and the Bombardier C-Series. They just don't go together.

And regardless of the Fixed-Link, there will be a bottleneck. This is a residential neighbourhood with 2-lane streets and stop signs/traffic lights every few meters in any direction! Picture an airport on your residential street and it's no different. In fact it's worse, because Queens Quay is lined with high-density condos, not single-family homes.

Downtown airports are for short-hop flights for a specific target market: primarily business commuters and those needing to travel to/from the downtown core specifically. They are not meant for transcontinental flights serving the masses of people streaming in from across the GTA and Southern Ontario.

If you're coming from anywhere BUT the downtown core, it's actually LESS convenient to get to the island (with or without fixed link). And we already have the longest commutes in North America without having to deal with tourists and airport limos clogging the downtown grid. There's a reason they put airports out beyond the city limits, let's not forget that.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The Poll was commissioned by Porter and poses lots of loaded questions too...for example by first "priming" the respondent with a question about lower airfares and increased competition, which won't happen.

Ignoring the fact that they already do compete and offer lower fares for their trips than most other carriers?

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

And regardless of the Fixed-Link, there will be a bottleneck. This is a residential neighbourhood with 2-lane streets and stop signs/traffic lights every few meters in any direction! Picture an airport on your residential street and it's no different. In fact it's worse, because Queens Quay is lined with high-density condos, not single-family homes.

No matter how many times you say it, won't make it true.

You're trying to sell us that this airport is smack dab in the middle of a little residential community when in fact, it's a mixture of commercial, high density residential and industrial. It's the downtown core.

If you want little town feel with quiet streets, move out of the biggest city in Canada.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Ignoring the fact that they already do compete and offer lower fares for their trips than most other carriers?

Not in my experience. They offer premium and unique service from downtown, complete with free booze, all baked goodies and cans of pop you can fill your pockets with, free newspapers, computer lounge, gourmet coffee etc.....I love it but you pay extra for it.


I live right at that corner. There is only residential. There is no industrial or commercial. Haven't been to the waterfront in a while I take it?