[Hyack]

This is, as far as I know, the first multi car pileup in the Lower Mainland, on a bridge or not. The only other place in Canada I call recall anything like this happening is on Hwy 401 outside of Toronto, and they don't even need bridges to do it! Whenever you get a combination of black ice, fog and freezing temperatures, especially during rush hour on a major highway, you can almost guarantee mayhem will result. Add into this the fact the bridge is new and has never been tested in these conditions. The day before the contractors used enough de-icing solution to last 48 hours.....or so they thought.....I'm sure everybody has learned from this accident and proper steps will be taken, if it happens again then people should start looking at the design itself.

[Xort]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

The contractor who's responsible for salting and sanding the bridge fucked up by not putting enough product down to keep the road surface from freezing and the minister of transportation is still as fucking thick as two short planks despite your attempt to make her otherwise.

Roads get covered by ice and snow in the winter. The people at fault are the drivers.

That's how the law of the road works. The contractor might have failed to meet an obligation of their contract, I don't have access to that document. But the people at fault for the crash are the drivers.

Hyack Hyack:

I'm sure everybody has learned from this accident and proper steps will be taken, if it happens again then people should start looking at the design itself.

Maybe we should be looking at the drivers, make the people at fault for the crash... you know be at fault for it.

~

A side comment, it's sad to see how far people have slipped into the blame everyone and everything but the person at fault mentality.

[Brenda]

Maybe the people that were driving there, should just not have been there in the first place, right Xort? Then no one had crashed, and the bridge would still be terribly slippery, and ice and snow would still be falling.

[andyt]

Xort is out to lunch. Of course ultimately the driver has to look out for his own safety. But we live in a semi-civilized country. We rely on the govt to do their bit to keep us safe, including salting the roads. Especially in such a high traffic area. Yes, most people probably didn't have snow tires, but this wasn't snow, it was ice. All seasons can actually perform better on ice, because they have more biting edges than a snow tire. Studless snows, with hydrophilic compounds are another matter. But we get so little snow here, it just doesn't really make sense for people to buy them, unless they drive out the valley or to Whistler.

[Brenda]

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

[Hyack]

Brenda Brenda:

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year?.....because all it takes in the Lower Mainland is 2cms to shut everything down! If you're not prepared for the snow......stay the fuck off the roads..... but that doesn't ever happen, so every hill is covered with abandoned vehicles that can't make the grade.

[Brenda]

Hyack Hyack:

Brenda Brenda:

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year?.....because all it takes in the Lower Mainland is 2cms to shut everything down! If you're not prepared for the snow......stay the fuck off the roads..... but that doesn't ever happen, so every hill is covered with abandoned vehicles that can't make the grade.

That's a one day inconvenience. Big deal.
Oh, and yeah, I agree, don't drive when everything is shut down anyway.

[Caelon]

Brenda Brenda:

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

I live in Calgary and have not bought winter tires in over two decades. A good quality all season works in snow, ice, wet and dry pavement. Of course you must adapt your driving for the conditions so that you do not exceed the design of the tire, but I manage quite well with a lot more snow than Vancouver. I admit it is not as heavy as your area can have. Just saying I do not perceive the need for Calgary and so for Vancouver there is even less of a need.

[xerxes]

I feel I should remind the non-BC people that the snow we get here on the coast is very different than everywhere else. Our snow is not the nice, pliable powder the rest of Canada gets. Our snow is pure slush most of the time and it gives no traction.

[Caelon]

xerxes xerxes:

I feel I should remind the non-BC people that the snow we get here on the coast is very different than everywhere else. Our snow is not the nice, pliable powder the rest of Canada gets. Our snow is pure slush most of the time and it gives no traction.

Understood, but don't you think that other areas get similar snow leading up to 'winter' and in the spring. Some of our heaviest snowfalls in my area can be in March and April. Yes it can be straight slush 10 to 20 cm deep. Not 2 to 4 cm.

[Brenda]

Caelon Caelon:

xerxes xerxes:

I feel I should remind the non-BC people that the snow we get here on the coast is very different than everywhere else. Our snow is not the nice, pliable powder the rest of Canada gets. Our snow is pure slush most of the time and it gives no traction.

Understood, but don't you think that other areas get similar snow leading up to 'winter' and in the spring. Some of our heaviest snowfalls in my area can be in March and April. Yes it can be straight slush 10 to 20 cm deep. Not 2 to 4 cm.

Same here. And then it freezes up and you have an ice-rink. For days. The first few weeks, when it is not constantly freezing, are dramatic. I drove a front wheel drive up an un-plowed hill (yes, winter tires on it), and half way up, I slid backwards into someones yard. Needless to say I turn around and went back

The snow in The Netherlands is the same (or similar) to the snow in the Lower Mainland, and has the exact same effect. 1 cm, country grinds to a halt. When the leafs fall in Fall, and it rains, the trains stop because they "can't keep the rails working".

We are obligated here to either use winter tires, or carry chains from October to April.

[Xort]

andyt andyt:

Xort is out to lunch. Of course ultimately the driver has to look out for his own safety.

Only one person at fault for crashing due to poor road conditions.

$1:

But we live in a semi-civilized country. We rely on the govt to do their bit to keep us safe, including salting the roads. Especially in such a high traffic area.

Which they did, with applications of deicer and or sand.

$1:

Yes, most people probably didn't have snow tires, but this wasn't snow, it was ice. All seasons can actually perform better on ice, because they have more biting edges than a snow tire.

Modern winter or snow tires do better on snow and ice than all seasons. Claiming that an all season does better on ice is wrong.

$1:

Studless snows, with hydrophilic compounds are another matter. But we get so little snow here, it just doesn't really make sense for people to buy them, unless they drive out the valley or to Whistler.

If you get snow, then get snow tire or learn to drive with even more extra caution. That 40 cars would crash shows that some of them were not driving safely, I bet more than a fe safe drivers where rammed from behind by others that didn't get stopped in time.

xerxes xerxes:

I feel I should remind the non-BC people that the snow we get here on the coast is very different than everywhere else. Our snow is not the nice, pliable powder the rest of Canada gets. Our snow is pure slush most of the time and it gives no traction.

Winter or snow tires also work for slush.

Caelon Caelon:

I live in Calgary and have not bought winter tires in over two decades. A good quality all season works in snow, ice, wet and dry pavement.

All seasons still work it's not like your wheel stop being round, but their is a huge differance between all seasons and a winter tire. A winter tire is hugely better than an all season for winter driving.

$1:

Of course you must adapt your driving for the conditions so that you do not exceed the design of the tire, but I manage quite well with a lot more snow than Vancouver. I admit it is not as heavy as your area can have. Just saying I do not perceive the need for Calgary and so for Vancouver there is even less of a need.

It's a matter of safety, you would be more safe with a winter tire, even in Calgary. But you can opt not to have them and still drive without getting into a crash year after year.

~

People in good conditions drive too fast and too close to be safe. Take those drivers and add some snow, ice or slush and you get big problems. More so with a new bridge with a hugely higher effective speed due to better traffic flow.

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

In Vancouver, in winter, you can get a lot of fluctuations above and below zero, which means thaw-freezwe conditions, which can be qutie treachorous. Also, we only get 4 cm at sea level, but many of us like to head up to the moutnains when the snow comes.

[Brenda]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

In Vancouver, in winter, you can get a lot of fluctuations above and below zero, which means thaw-freezwe conditions, which can be qutie treachorous. Also, we only get 4 cm at sea level, but many of us like to head up to the moutnains when the snow comes.

I know, we have that here in November and December.

You are not obligated to have winter tires on or carry chains in the lower mainland, right?

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

I had never even heard of winter tires in The Netherlands. The weather is about the same there as in the Lower Mainland and it is just as flat. Why drive around on winter tires when you get 4 cms of snow per year? Makes no sense.

I can't do without here, but we get A LOT.

In Vancouver, in winter, you can get a lot of fluctuations above and below zero, which means thaw-freezwe conditions, which can be qutie treachorous. Also, we only get 4 cm at sea level, but many of us like to head up to the moutnains when the snow comes.

I know, we have that here in November and December.

You are not obligated to have winter tires on or carry chains in the lower mainland, right?

No. but I always do. They won't let you up some roads (heading for the mountains) if you don't have winter tires, I believe.