[andyt]

The few might have launched the attack on the Embassies, but they are supported by the ululating freak show outside - plenty of those. It's neither as few as you want to have it, nor as many as Bart sees. But it's plenty enough to be a big problem.

Look at how long the Egyptian govt too to react to the Embassy storming. Shows where their sympathies lie.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

The few might have launched the attack on the Embassies, but they are supported by the ululating freak show outside - plenty of those. It's neither as few as you want to have it, nor as many as Bart sees. But it's plenty enough to be a big problem.

Look at how long the Egyptian govt too to react to the Embassy storming. Shows where their sympathies lie.

Over half of the Egyptians voted for the Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi. That's a majority no matter how you or anyone else wants to parse it.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

The few might have launched the attack on the Embassies, but they are supported by the ululating freak show outside - plenty of those. It's neither as few as you want to have it, nor as many as Bart sees. But it's plenty enough to be a big problem.

Look at how long the Egyptian govt too to react to the Embassy storming. Shows where their sympathies lie.

Over half of the Egyptians voted for the Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi. That's a majority no matter how you or anyone else wants to parse it.

Well, you know, or should, that it's a bit more complicated than that. Just as everyone voting PQ isn't a separatist, not everyone voting Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamist bent on jihad. For one thing, the MB had the advantage of being very well organized, vs more liberal groups. And they actually do a lot of good within their country, helping the poor etc. Who knows what will develop with time. But there's no question that the majority of Egyptians are of a pretty fundamentalist Islamic bent - not the nice, tolerant of others people that some want to pretend they are. That can change too tho, if the people see a betterment for themselves thru more moderate ways - like Turkey, say.

Out of the billion Muslims, there are a significant minority who are our enemies, in the sense of the friend of my enemy is my enemy. Even if it's just 20%, that's 200 million people.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Well, you know, or should, that it's a bit more complicated than that. Just as everyone voting PQ isn't a separatist, not everyone voting Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamist bent on jihad. For one thing, the MB had the advantage of being very well organized, vs more liberal groups. And they actually do a lot of good within their country, helping the poor etc. Who knows what will develop with time. But there's no question that the majority of Egyptians are of a pretty fundamentalist Islamic bent - not the nice, tolerant of others people that some want to pretend they are. That can change too tho, if the people see a betterment for themselves thru more moderate ways - like Turkey, say.

Turkey is run by an Islamist party these days, too, and their 'moderation' is fading quickly these days.

andyt andyt:

Out of the billion Muslims, there are a significant minority who are our enemies, in the sense of the friend of my enemy is my enemy. Even if it's just 20%, that's 200 million people.

And there you go. Thank you for the way you phrased that. Too many people like to pretend that the bad guys just number in the hundreds or thousands...or not at all.

[andyt]

great - now you admit that it's a minority, and we can go on from there.

Turkey may have an Islamist party, but seems pretty stable and quiet. Let's hope it stays that way.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

great - now you admit that it's a minority, and we can go on from there.

Not exactly, but I'm not in the mood to go any further than that.

andyt andyt:

Turkey may have an Islamist party, but seems pretty stable and quiet. Let's hope it stays that way.

I don't think it will. Turkey is another country with a freely elected Islamist party running things and the number of muslim vs. anyone else incidents there have been on the upswing. The military and PM Edrogan are playing it cool for now but the tide of the times is with the Islamists and not the inheritors of Ataturk.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Turkey is run by an Islamist party these days, too, and their 'moderation' is fading quickly these days.

Turkey has been run for the past 10 years by a conservative party.

Turkey is a secular parliamentary democracy.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Turkey is run by an Islamist party these days, too, and their 'moderation' is fading quickly these days.

Turkey has been run for the past 10 years by a conservative party.

Denial is so much fun, isn't it?

Brenda Brenda:

Turkey is a secular parliamentary democracy.

For now.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Turkey is run by an Islamist party these days, too, and their 'moderation' is fading quickly these days.

Turkey has been run for the past 10 years by a conservative party.

Denial is so much fun, isn't it?

Brenda Brenda:

Turkey is a secular parliamentary democracy.

For now.

So when you are voting for Romney, in 10 years, the US will be a Mormon state?

Apparently, fear mongering is wayyyyy more fun.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

So when you are voting for Romney, in 10 years, the US will be a Mormon state?

Apparently, fear mongering is wayyyyy more fun.

Edrogan and his party are Islamist and his party quietly promotes restoring sharia law in Turkey as was noted by a party officer who recently agitated for women wearing headscarves.

His comment, and I paraphrase, was:

A woman without a headscarf is like a house without curtains. Any house without curtains is either for rent or for sale.

Feel free to defend that comment.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

So when you are voting for Romney, in 10 years, the US will be a Mormon state?

Apparently, fear mongering is wayyyyy more fun.

Edrogan and his party are Islamist and his party quietly promotes restoring sharia law in Turkey as was noted by a party officer who recently agitated for women wearing headscarves.

His comment, and I paraphrase, was:

A woman without a headscarf is like a house without curtains. Any house without curtains is either for rent or for sale.

Feel free to defend that comment.

You're misinformed. Erdogan never said that. Naim Kose did. Who is a local head of Erdogan's party, in Bozkurt. Bozkurt has a population of 12,000.

Edit: I misread that. You never said Erdogan said that. So disregard the first 2 sentences.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

So when you are voting for Romney, in 10 years, the US will be a Mormon state?

Apparently, fear mongering is wayyyyy more fun.

Edrogan and his party are Islamist and his party quietly promotes restoring sharia law in Turkey as was noted by a party officer who recently agitated for women wearing headscarves.

His comment, and I paraphrase, was:

A woman without a headscarf is like a house without curtains. Any house without curtains is either for rent or for sale.

Feel free to defend that comment.

That's a game that can be played both ways - lots of Republicans/Democrats with little to no clout say stupid shit all the time.

What matters is what the powerful national politicians say, not the sewer commissioners and mayors of dinky little towns.

[Thanos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Too many people like to pretend that the bad guys just number in the hundreds or thousands...or not at all.

I really wish you'd quit saying that. I haven't seen anyone here deny the existence of radical Islam at all. What some of the rest of us are saying is more that we don't see every eruption by these fundie assholes as being worthy of another pointless bombing campaign somewhere that serves only to create more enemies. Two prior wars, one still ongoing, have bankrupted your country and stretched your military to the breaking point, which is what Bin Laden said be wanted to goad the US into from the beginning. As such, unless you want to go full-out and earn the permanent condemnation of the entire planet (including what would be your soon-to-be-former allies) by using nuclear weapons, I don't see what responses the US has left to the ongoing diva-drama of the Islamic part of the world.

I'd like to know what your alternative to any of these incidents is anyhow. You really just come in here with your daily GOP talking points of "Obama! Weakling! Apologist! Traitor! Fake American! Neo-Stalin!". You really don't ever suggest what you would or wouldn't do. Aside from you periodically saying that you don't want anymore American interventions in any of these idiotic countries, which is a good idea except that it goes against the grain of about the last seven decades of US foreign policy, you don't suggest much else. So does every incident involving Muslims require an airstrike? Cut off all the American aid money and let them all starve? Let loose the CIA, knock off all their parliaments a la Mossadegh and install more kings, shahs, and other military autocrats? Nuke a few of their cities, even in the absence of a significantly awful terrorist attack, just to show them not to fuck with the US ever again? C'mon, tell us. What whould you do that the last three to six Presidents of your nation haven't already done?

Seriously, it's your free speech and all to come out and say you can't stand Muslims. But it gets kind of boring the ten-thousandth time around when you're not willing to say what you really think the solution to all this should be.

[CanadianJeff]

Frankly it drives me mad watching Christians calling Muslims violent while acting innocent. There is almost no greater case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Thankfully with each generation religion shrinks in the modern world. To that I say Amen.

[Brenda]

Thanos Thanos:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Too many people like to pretend that the bad guys just number in the hundreds or thousands...or not at all.

I really wish you'd quit saying that. I haven't seen anyone here deny the existence of radical Islam at all. What some of the rest of us are saying is more that we don't see every eruption by these fundie assholes as being worthy of another pointless bombing campaign somewhere that serves only to create more enemies. Two prior wars, one still ongoing, have bankrupted your country and stretched your military to the breaking point, which is what Bin Laden said be wanted to goad the US into from the beginning. As such, unless you want to go full-out and earn the permanent condemnation of the entire planet (including what would be your soon-to-be-former allies) by using nuclear weapons, I don't see what responses the US has left to the ongoing diva-drama of the Islamic part of the world.

I'd like to know what your alternative to any of these incidents is anyhow. You really just come in here with your daily GOP talking points of "Obama! Weakling! Apologist! Traitor! Fake American! Neo-Stalin!". You really don't ever suggest what you would or wouldn't do. Aside from you periodically saying that you don't want anymore American interventions in any of these idiotic countries, which is a good idea except that it goes against the grain of about the last seven decades of US foreign policy, you don't suggest much else. So does every incident involving Muslims require an airstrike? Cut off all the American aid money and let them all starve? Let loose the CIA, knock off all their parliaments a la Mossadegh and install more kings, shahs, and other military autocrats? Nuke a few of their cities, even in the absence of a significantly awful terrorist attack, just to show them not to fuck with the US ever again? C'mon, tell us. What whould you do that the last three to six Presidents of your nation haven't already done?

Seriously, it's your free speech and all to come out and say you can't stand Muslims. But it gets kind of boring the ten-thousandth time around when you're not willing to say what you really think the solution to all this should be.

Can't rep ya, gotta spread the love first...