[Gunnair]

Xort Xort:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Please... offer up the examples for discussion then.

Mali 2012, a Captain lead a sucessful coup d'état against the elected government I've read number in the mid 30s for core members.

Muammar Gaddafi at the rank of lieutenant, in 1969 lead 70 troops mostly from the Signal Corps in a bloodless coup.

Siamese coup d'état of 1932 was started by 7 men only two were in the military.

1980 Liberia suffered a coup lead by a Master Sergeant.

Most succesful coup d'état are conducted by higher ranking officers which implies that many of the soldiers under their command would follow their orders. Which sorta implies that low ranked members that lead a succesful coup do not have large numbers under their command.

So... you are comparing the overthrow of the US government by a handful of US soldiers to the more elaborate coups done against less than stable governments holding sway over deeply divided populations?

Riiiiiight.

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

raydan raydan:

The United States' Uniform Code of Military Justice

Art. 94. (§ 894.) 2004 Mutiny or Sedition.
...
...
(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

I won't rule it out. If the charges have merit then this is entirely possible.

I would.

There ain't a politician or pundent out there that doesn't get what'll happen if you execute four martyrs. Irrespective of the rhetoric the left and right toss out, even the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs don't want another Oklahoma City or Waco to happen.

That being said, the fact that military justice cannot be carried out because of the political and social repercussions that would rip the country apart demonstrates just how fucked up the US has become.

[Unsound]

Gunnair Gunnair:

So... you are comparing the overthrow of the US government by a handful of US soldiers to the more elaborate coups done against less than stable governments holding sway over deeply divided populations?

Riiiiiight.

Xort Xort:

It's not without historical precedent for a very small group of soliders of suprisingly low rank to overthrow a government. Maybe not something on the scale of the US government... but it has happened more than once.

[Gunnair]

Unsound Unsound:

Gunnair Gunnair:

So... you are comparing the overthrow of the US government by a handful of US soldiers to the more elaborate coups done against less than stable governments holding sway over deeply divided populations?

Riiiiiight.

Xort Xort:

It's not without historical precedent for a very small group of soliders of suprisingly low rank to overthrow a government. Maybe not something on the scale of the US government... but it has happened more than once.

Yeah read that...thanks. Re read the whole 'maybe' not on the scale of the US government. By maybe he means, not a hope in hell.

What he tossed out was incomparable. Not sure why that part was lost on you.

[Unsound]

You asked for examples of small groups of low ranking soldiers overthrowing a government. You didn't place any conditions on it. You've moved the goal posts. Seemed a bit unfair to me.

[Gunnair]

Unsound Unsound:

You asked for examples of small groups of low ranking soldiers overthrowing a government. You didn't place any conditions on it. You've moved the goal posts. Seemed a bit unfair to me.

Not really. Since this thread is discussing the assassination of the US president as well as a potential for the overthrow of the US government by a small group of military folk, one would think that if you are going to postulate that it has historical precedent, one would compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

Might as well compare Auschwitz to Andersonville.

[Unsound]

Kinda hard to compare apples to apples when there aren't and never have been any apples as big as the US government, so I think ine could be forgiven for comparing crab apples to apples when that's all you have.

Tortured metaphors aside, perhaps you would have been more satisfied if he'd answered the question you, apparently, intended to ask? "Plesae give an example of the US being overthrown by a small group of low ranking soldiers"

[Gunnair]

Unsound Unsound:

Kinda hard to compare apples to apples when there aren't and never have been any apples as big as the US government, so I think ine could be forgiven for comparing crab apples to apples when that's all you have.

Tortured metaphors aside, perhaps you would have been more satisfied if he'd answered the question you, apparently, intended to ask? "Plesae give an example of the US being overthrown by a small group of low ranking soldiers"

I didn't pose the question. He posed the example.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

"Plesae give an example of the US being overthrown by a small group of low ranking soldiers"

Wellll.....a well armed and equipped Royal government was overthrown by a seditious provincial militia

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

"Plesae give an example of the US being overthrown by a small group of low ranking soldiers"

Wellll.....a well armed and equipped Royal government was overthrown by a seditious provincial militia

Oops, forgot the French and Spanish allies.

Thanks for that though.

[Xort]

Single people can change history. Do you expect it to happen often? No, but it does happen, and single people can turn into many people if the conditions are right.

In this case I would put the odds as close to infinitely impossible as is mathematically possible.

But I can think of a few situations that could come to be that would lead to the conditions being fair for a military take over of the US federal government.

Looking at the history of the coup, the most comment elements present during a sucessful coup are one or more or all of the following:

Mistreatment of a very popular high ranking military member.
Mass corruption within the government, with out without kickbacks passed onto the average military member.
Perceived or actual incompetence of the civilian government, while the military is operated efficently.
A huge decline in the average standard of living.
A tyrannical rule, normaly by some form of absolute ruler.
Communist uprisings, religious uprisings. These tend to either have the support of the military and are sucessful, or not and lead to civil wars.

This isn't or shouldn't be news to anyone, but can you think of situations that lead to anything I listed happening to the US?

A factor that protects the US from a coup is that most larger nations don't have successful coup d'état they tend to have civil wars instead.

[xerxes]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

raydan raydan:

The United States' Uniform Code of Military Justice

Art. 94. (§ 894.) 2004 Mutiny or Sedition.
...
...
(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

I won't rule it out. If the charges have merit then this is entirely possible.

It'd be interesting if that were to happen. According to Wikipedia (sorry, it's still a good reference source) the last time a serving serviceman/woaman was executed was 1961.

[Thanos]

They're being tried in civilian court, not a military one. It's Georgia and that means the death penalty, not for treason but for the two off-base murders, has been on the table from the get-go.