[Prof_Chomsky]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Yes but:

The refineries are

a. Broken and need repair................yet again;
b. Are shut down for maintenance.............again.

The cost is increasing because of:

a. A giant demand for fuel by yak herders in Ethiopia,
b. Indian Call center employees are now powering their telephones with gasoline
c. Al Gore is pressure washing his California Beach Front home.


The real reason is:

We can charge you what the fuck we want and there's not a thing you can do about it. So like we told that annoying Senate Committee a couple of years ago.

Suck it up or you can start walking.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Fuel prices tend to stick at higher levels partly because governments like it that way. The higher the price of fuel is the more tax revenue they receive (and the happier their anti-petroleum radical leftard constituents are). Therefore, asking government regulators to 'do something' about fuel prices is like asking Bobby Brown to 'do something' about crack.

I think it works differently in Canada than the USA. We charge a flat tax per litre, not a percentage of the price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_fuel_taxes_in_Canada

[BartSimpson]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I think it works differently in Canada than the USA. We charge a flat tax per litre, not a percentage of the price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_fuel_taxes_in_Canada

According to your site provincial and local sales taxes are also applied to petrol on a per dollar basis, not a per litre basis. Therefore the higher the price the more the revenue the province or local government obtains. Same as down here.

[Prof_Chomsky]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

According to your site provincial and local sales taxes are also applied to petrol on a per dollar basis, not a per litre basis. Therefore the higher the price the more the revenue the province or local government obtains. Same as down here.

Good point.
I still don't think governments want the higher prices though, at least not in Canada. The flat tax rate of around 40 cents/liter (plus sales tax as you pointed out) was designed to get a flat tax return. Agreed they get a slight boost whenever prices go up through sales taxes, but they get the same on anything we buy.

And the problem is when people pay more for gas, they spend less on other goods that are taxed the exact same way through sales taxes and create far more jobs and keep more revenue in Canada.

i.e. The only government "fuel specific" tax is a flat tax so fuel prices don’t help much. The sales tax revenue they will get on anything we purchase, so it's in everyone's best interest we purchase something with intrinsic value rather than a product that literally goes up in smoke.

[rickc]

We are screwed either way. As gas prices have risen,people have cut back on driving. They have also switched to more fuel conserving cars. Now the States are bitching about a drop in fuel tax revenues. There is a pilot project here in Nevada to equip cars with gps devices to charge taxes for all miles driven. They would know every mile that you drive, where you drive, times, etc. Hows that for big brother watching you?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/ma ... be-taxing/

[herbie]

Check out the gasbuddy site sometime to hear the whining in the USA. People are starving because gas prices are so high and it's all Obama's fault. The 24c a gallon tax is way too high and should be cut, etc. etc. etc.

Fucking gas has been $133.9 for months and it's crippled me completely. I tuned up the 460 cu.in. 4x4 and drive it very little. I'm forced to use one of the other 3 vehicles most of the time.

[Cfox]

On my recent trip to Chilliwack, BC from Red Deer, AB the fuel was $1.11/L in Banff, AB and just across to border in Golden, BC it was $1.29/L. it would sure be nice if Canada would process our own crude, fuel prices may even drop lower for us.

[andyt]

Cfox Cfox:

On my recent trip to Chilliwack, BC from Red Deer, AB the fuel was $1.11/L in Banff, AB and just across to border in Golden, BC it was $1.29/L. it would sure be nice if Canada would process our own crude, fuel prices may even drop lower for us.

We do you know. We have quite a number of refineries. The wholesale price of fuel can't drop only in Canada, because we would have to sell for the same price to the US. The main reason our fuel prices are higher is because of taxes. I think that's a good thing.

[Cfox]

I realize we have a large number of refineries in Canada, however they are owned directly or indirectly by Americans. And we could set our own prices here and charge them for delivery. I do not place any of my faith in the American dominance of North America.

[andyt]

Cfox Cfox:

I realize we have a large number of refineries in Canada, however they are owned directly or indirectly by Americans. And we could set our own prices here and charge them for delivery. I do not place any of my faith in the American dominance of North America.

So nationalize the refineries? As for delivery costs, I bet they are a whole lot more to Corner Brook than Helena, Montana.

I don't know about faith in American dominance, but it's a fact of life. I don't have any faith that it will change any time soon.

[Cfox]

No, nationalization doesn't work. I would like to she Canadian ownership of the refineries and priority given to Canadian retailers. The fact of life is because people allowed it by doing nothing to avoid it. Delivery charges to Montana is absorbed by the owning companies as a cost of doing business that they then pass on to the consumers. Delivery costs to Corner Brook would naturally be higher as the fuel needs to be transported first to the owning company and then to Corner Brook, and that is where they can increase fees and coverages for profit. I would think that if there was a Canadian refinery near you, prices could be reduced and still make a healthy profit for the shareholders.

[Scape]

Both conventional oil and gas have peaked in Canada. The nation is running out of natural gas. Yet Canada cannot stretch out dwindling stocks for Canadian needs by cutting exports. Instead, more than half of its gas has to be made available to the U.S. Canada could also be prevented from providing its own oil to its own citizens in an international oil shortage. The reason: the proportionality clause in NAFTA.

NAFTA has us locked in to an agreement that we must sell 2/3rds of our production to US markets.

The collapse in the oil market would be from the EURO mess. Something we here in north America can do nothing but spectate. I give them a better then 50-50 chance of screwing up. When it does go it will hit us like a tsunami.

[andyt]

For natural gas, they've just reported a new play in BC that's supposed to be the biggest in the world.

$1:

Shale gas discoveries have transformed North America’s natural-gas industry. The massive fields have created a surplus of the fuel that has driven prices down to 10-year lows and sparked the creation of a nascent liquefied natural gas industry as producers look to tap high-paying markets in Asia and elsewhere.

[rickc]

Scape Scape:

Both conventional oil and gas have peaked in Canada. The nation is running out of natural gas. Yet Canada cannot stretch out dwindling stocks for Canadian needs by cutting exports. Instead, more than half of its gas has to be made available to the U.S. Canada could also be prevented from providing its own oil to its own citizens in an international oil shortage. The reason: the proportionality clause in NAFTA.

NAFTA has us locked in to an agreement that we must sell 2/3rds of our production to US markets.

The collapse in the oil market would be from the EURO mess. Something we here in north America can do nothing but spectate. I give them a better then 50-50 chance of screwing up. When it does go it will hit us like a tsunami.

That link is old news. A lot has changed since 08. Horizontal drilling and fracking has opened up so many new gas fields that its cheaper to flare it off than produce it for use in North America. The U.S. is practicaly swimming in nat gas. With nat gas prices under $3 per thousand cubic feet in the States, it is not economically feasable for corporations to sell to the American market. That same thousand cubic feet of gas goes for $9 in Europe, and $15 in Asia. The immediate future of nat gas is to be converted to LNG,and exported to higher paying markets. The U.S. is on track to become one of the worlds largest exporters of natural gas in the next few years. We currenty lack the infrastructure to convert nat gas to LNG at the levels required, but plants are being built even as we speak. I can understand your desire to rewrite the proportionality clause. It would totaly suck for Canadian producers to sell to American corporations at under $3 for a product that would than be exported to Asia for over 5 times profit. We Americans must have had Don King negotiating that part of the treaty for us.