[Lemmy]

Geez, andy, when you see a double post, quotation error, etc., you could give a guy 2 minutes to fix it up.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Last spring we had a number of sightings of blue whales off of the California coast. Naturally, the Japanese decided to press a claim for 'harvesting' some of them for 'scientific research' and, God bless the US Coast Guard, they were brusquely rebuffed.

Conservative as I am, I'm utterly opposed to whaling save for letting aboriginals conduct their hunts and then only by traditional means. I do not approve of them using rifles in their hunts.

Except they don't have the skills required for harpoons, so the whale will suffer, maybe escape and then die. Plus one of the natives might get hurt. I'm opposed to the natives hunting whales at all. The last one the Makah hunted lay on the beach and rotted, while the natives went to McDonald's. They just wanted to use it to claim their sovereignty. Total bullshit.

The Innuit, otoh, have been continuously hunting whales since time immemorial. They actually do utilize the meat and blubber. I have no problem with that - no McD's up there.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Geez, andy, when you see a double post, quotation error, etc., you could give a guy 2 minutes to fix it up.

I don't know wtf you're talking about - I made no post directed at you. Better lay off the pot for a bit.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

I don't know wtf you're talking about

Clearly.

[andyt]

Clearly. What post of mine do you think referred to your double post? I didn't even notice, because I was ignoring your usual sheep fucking banter, more interested in the actual discussion.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Plus one of the natives might get hurt.

If they want to hunt to uphold their traditions then getting killed would enhance the experience, don't you think?

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Clearly. What post of mine do you think referred to your double post? I didn't even notice, because I was ignoring your usual sheep fucking banter, more interested in the actual discussion.

I think he's referring to the post that the Andy in his mind made, not you.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Plus one of the natives might get hurt.

If they want to hunt to uphold their traditions then getting killed would enhance the experience, don't you think?

That was sarcasm. If they want to go full traditional, with only canoes and only stone tipped harpoons with cedar bark ropes, I say let em fly at it. I still don't agree with it, but they can't do much damage and will soon get bored anyway.

[jeff744]

andyt andyt:

jeff744 jeff744:

Canadiana55 Canadiana55:

Awesome! Now enter some Japanese,Chinese or Russian whaling ship to slaughter it.

Are you aware that while humanity is working to protect the whales and are starting to move on fisheries, whale populations have boomed and are now a major factor in the low fish populations? That the whaling nations have never once even come close to getting their quotas and despite their hunting the whale populations continue to rise? Stop watching Whale Wars.

I'm not sure the Orcas are doing all that well. They've been listed as threatened in the Northwest at one time. And, only the resident Orca eat salmon. There are two other groups, on that primarily eats seals and sea lions - those would actually help to maintain fish populations, and one group that feeds primarily on sharks - same deal. The shark eaters die an early death because the rough shark skin wears down their teeth prematurely.

Other than Orcas, I can't think of any whales that eat fish around here. And as Shep pointed out, Orcas are actually overgrown dolphins. So I would like to see a link that shows that whales, or even cetaceans are a major factor in low fish populations. My guess is there's a different species we can blame for that.

If whales being hunted are so abundant, how is it the hunters can't make their quota?

Nobody hunts orca for food (except maybe the Inuit), most groups primarily hunt Minke which are the most numerous and do eat fish. Most of the hunters can't make their quotas because there happens to be a rogue group in the area that is endangering the lives of whaling crews while also causing damage to the ships they use. They also aren't using as many ships as they could so they can only be in so many places at once, since the very start quotas have never been reached, in some cases they don't catch a single whale of some species because they aren't in the area. Whale populations are on the rise globally, and whaling does help to monitor how the populations are doing by comparing the number caught with the number of boats in the hunt.

[jeff744]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Last spring we had a number of sightings of blue whales off of the California coast. Naturally, the Japanese decided to press a claim for 'harvesting' some of them for 'scientific research' and, God bless the US Coast Guard, they were brusquely rebuffed.

Conservative as I am, I'm utterly opposed to whaling save for letting aboriginals conduct their hunts and then only by traditional means. I do not approve of them using rifles in their hunts.

Are you also opposed to killing deer? moose? fish? crabs? Whaling is made as humane as technology allows and technology is constantly working to make it even more humane.

[andyt]

jeff744 jeff744:

Nobody hunts orca for food (except maybe the Inuit), most groups primarily hunt Minke which are the most numerous and do eat fish. Most of the hunters can't make their quotas because there happens to be a rogue group in the area that is endangering the lives of whaling crews while also causing damage to the ships they use. They also aren't using as many ships as they could so they can only be in so many places at once, since the very start quotas have never been reached, in some cases they don't catch a single whale of some species because they aren't in the area. Whale populations are on the rise globally, and whaling does help to monitor how the populations are doing by comparing the number caught with the number of boats in the hunt.

Can you please provide a link that shows that Minke whales are decimating the fish stocks. Or other whale species for that matter. I would guess human over fishing and pollution play by far the greatest role.

[BartSimpson]

jeff744 jeff744:

Are you also opposed to killing deer? moose? fish? crabs? Whaling is made as humane as technology allows and technology is constantly working to make it even more humane.

I'd be opposed to killing deer, moose, fish, and crabs if we were hunting them to extinction, yes.

Whales have a bitch of a time with getting accidentally maimed and killed by ships and subs and hunting them does no freaking good just so some Japanese or Norwegians can feel 'exotic' by eating whale meat.

Whales do not reproduce at the same rate as the critters you cited so replacing their populations is not nearly as quick an occurance as it would be with a herd of deer.

[jeff744]

andyt andyt:

jeff744 jeff744:

Nobody hunts orca for food (except maybe the Inuit), most groups primarily hunt Minke which are the most numerous and do eat fish. Most of the hunters can't make their quotas because there happens to be a rogue group in the area that is endangering the lives of whaling crews while also causing damage to the ships they use. They also aren't using as many ships as they could so they can only be in so many places at once, since the very start quotas have never been reached, in some cases they don't catch a single whale of some species because they aren't in the area. Whale populations are on the rise globally, and whaling does help to monitor how the populations are doing by comparing the number caught with the number of boats in the hunt.

Can you please provide a link that shows that Minke whales are decimating the fish stocks. Or other whale species for that matter. I would guess human over fishing and pollution play by far the greatest role.

My original source got buried under about 20 pages of anti-whaling sites, though I will concede the point as I found one report that referenced my original source and stated that it included seals for some inexplicable reason.

[andyt]

Hell, I'm such a nice guy I looked it up for you. Seems the whaling nations blame whales for declining fish stocks, while the anti-whalers call bullshit. We've had exactly the same argument with seals. Seals and whales co-existed with fish long before humans got involved, and the fish were plentiful. Portugese fishers, when they first got here would just scoop cod out of the sea with hand nets. We know that predators keep populations healthy, unlike human hunting. Blaming the whales or seals for the problems of over fishing is just bullshit.

[jeff744]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

jeff744 jeff744:

Are you also opposed to killing deer? moose? fish? crabs? Whaling is made as humane as technology allows and technology is constantly working to make it even more humane.

I'd be opposed to killing deer, moose, fish, and crabs if we were hunting them to extinction, yes.

Whales have a bitch of a time with getting accidentally maimed and killed by ships and subs and hunting them does no freaking good just so some Japanese or Norwegians can feel 'exotic' by eating whale meat.

Whales do not reproduce at the same rate as the critters you cited so replacing their populations is not nearly as quick an occurance as it would be with a herd of deer.

But whales aren't in danger of extinction either, any species in danger either has severe limits or is completely banned. They take an extremely small number in comparison to how many are actually born every year and their populations are on the rise. In the case of some whales whaling is the only way we can even gather information.

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/table_permit.htm